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Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

 
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:28 PM
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Icon13 Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

My prelude has more then 200k miles and Iam thinking total rebuilt with new parts to increase hose power. Question is I want to install new AEM cam gears with Skunk camshafts and skunk intake manifold and AEM short ram( easier to clean filters) I already have DC sports headers and grady exhaust.

will these be enough to give me about 50 hoses. I need your expert adivices in adding this and other parts. I DONOT WANT TO GO TURBO route. I am also think about carbon fiber hood. factory rims as to keep low key from car being stolen.Thanks
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:33 PM
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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

probably not, the dc header is garbage, you will need to invest alot better of a header than that. you will need a street port and polish on the head with a port matched intake manifold. the skunk manifold is not good for N/A apps. you should go with the EuroR. if you go with stage 2 cams than you will also need to upgrade your valvetrain. even with all of this and an extremely good tune i doubt you will gain 50 hp.
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Old 03-16-2009, 01:44 PM
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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

^^^What he said plus Type S pistons during the rebuild, and you still may not get 50.

Considered a supercharger since you said no turbo?
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Old 03-16-2009, 02:14 PM
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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

if ya throw in a short throw in a new ECU, Type S piston, port and polish, maybe bigger injectors, short throw shifter, light wight flywheel and stage 1 clutch it should take a good bit of your times but i dough 50 more hp.
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Old 03-16-2009, 02:36 PM
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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

Thanks guys, I forgot to menation that is automatic.SO you guys sugest I need teh following
1. EuroR manifold
2. AEM cams
3.S pistons
4.what about Camshaft??
Any other mods I need which will help gain hoses. I gues I have yto forget about 50 hoses.
which is the best place to buy tis parts. I live in CA
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Old 03-16-2009, 02:45 PM
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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

If you have an auto ya need to hold of on the engine and swap in a 5speed. The gears are longer in the auto all that work would really be for nothing with an auto on it.
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Old 03-16-2009, 03:01 PM
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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

not only what yogi said, but you will also gain power and torque by switching to a 5 speed.
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Old 03-16-2009, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saaax650 View Post
Thanks guys, I forgot to menation that is automatic.SO you guys sugest I need teh following
1. EuroR manifold
2. AEM cams
3.S pistons
4.what about Camshaft??
Any other mods I need which will help gain hoses. I gues I have yto forget about 50 hoses.
which is the best place to buy tis parts. I live in CA


This isn't bashing your goals, so please don't take it this way, but before you can say "I want to get XX amount of horsepower," you need to say "this is how much money I have, what are the best parts to get to increase my power?

I wholeheartedly live by and speak by the fundamental that you're going to pay $100 for every horsepower you gain. I've know this is true based on my experiences. If you end up paying to build up certain components for more power in the future, you're going to be spending alot more per horsepower now, but be able to harness it all later.

With that being said, building an N/A engine to achieve 50 more horsepower will be a tall task without a turbo. If you search around the forums and their threads on this subject, you'll find some individuals with $8,000 or more invested into their N/A engines to get that 50hp increase. You're taking a base whp number of 175 (I'm being generous) that a healthy engine will put out and now making your goal 225.

The first thing is, you're going to have to realize you'll need to buy an engine management system for this. No piggy-back systems can support what you want.

Second, you're going to have to realize you need a complete engine rebuild. A JDM H22A (11:1 CR and 220hp to the crank) is a good base, but you'll probably need a rebuild because this motor will probably make 195 to the wheels and that's with all of its components maxed out to factory specs to run safely. The engine rebuild will consist of lightweight everything in the engine to include balancing and knife-edging the crankshaft. Then deletion of balance shafts, then lightweight pistons and rods, then a valvetrain on your head capable of spinning upwards of 8,000rpm. To tell you the truth, many high-horsepower N/A builds using the H22 have began to stroke them to increase bore and stroke. The highest I've seen our engine stroked to is 2.6 liters, but you'll start to run into some long-term reliability problems stroking that much.

Third, you'll also realize that you might have to start running a higher octane fuel due to the 11.5:1 CR or more you'll be having to run. If you're not in a state (or area) that sells 93 octane or higher at the pump, you might have to resort to buying your own gasoline in bulk and mixing it (effectively making it a non-daily-driver).

Fourth, you'll have to start losing niceties like A/C and perhaps power steering. A lightened flywheel will help, but it will only help accelerate faster, not necessarily give more hp. Then your exhaust system will have to include a ridiculously priced custom built header. These range from $800 and up to accomodate a larger collector. Your exhaust piping size will be up for debate, but since you want a 4 cylinder to make big whp numbers, it'll all be in the top end. So a 3" custom exhaust will be the only way to go.

As for intakes, the EuroR manifold is good, but there are other companies that make equally better manifolds like Skunk2 or Blacktrax (which makes a manifold spacer). A short ram intake can only be as big as the throttle body it goes into, so you'll have to increase the size of that or bore out your stock 60mm one (the type S has a 62mm TB).

And of course, 225-230whp won't feel like all its supposed to without weight reduction. Get ready to lose some creature comforts inside (seats, speakers, carpeting, sound deadening) and start adding carbon fiber parts (trunk, hood, sunroof delete kit).


By the time you get done with all of this, you will have gone down the road less traveled, but you will gain mad respect.

...or you could just go turbo and smoke the next built N/A H22 you come across...

P.S. Don't buy parts from a shop unless you absolutely have to. Buy them all from the internet because with shipping added, you'll still end up saving more in cost than the retail markup that shops add on. The only exception is large items like bumpers, braces, wheels and so on.

Just do your research online for a couple days, then buy online when you're satisfied that your purchase will be worth it.

Remember this principle:

Power
Reliability
Low Cost

You can only have 2 from that list.

Last edited by 1BadBB6; 03-16-2009 at 04:05 PM. Reason: Two Posts within minutes, please use edit function
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Old 03-16-2009, 04:50 PM
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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

Thanks guys.My Prelude is VTEC with 195 hp and I have about $4k to spend
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Old 03-16-2009, 04:55 PM
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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

195hp to the flywheel thats not to the wheels. with it being auto i would say you would be lucky to push 160 to the wheels. for 4k you could rebuild your bottom end, get a good header and IM, stage 2 cams and valvetrain and a good tune. or you could swap to a 5speed and then do the rebuild later unless it absolutely needs it now. with 4K i def wouldnt look to gain 50hp. more like 30hp maybe. just do your research and figure out what you can afford.

i have been researching my build for the past 6 months and still havent figured out my final list.
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Old 03-16-2009, 05:05 PM
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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

thanks, The problem is I donot know how to drive manual. I can go 2 more years with tune up or mods. I was under impression that H22a4 engine cannot be bored akaprepreludesh has done it. I can propably go to $4.5K max spending.
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Old 03-16-2009, 05:30 PM
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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

Quote:
Originally Posted by saaax650 View Post
thanks, The problem is I donot know how to drive manual. I can go 2 more years with tune up or mods. I was under impression that H22a4 engine cannot be bored akaprepreludesh has done it. I can propably go to $4.5K max spending.

The stock sleeves of the H22a4 cannot be bored. They are made of a material called FRM (fiber-reinforced material, similar in consistency to ceramic). In order to bore it out, new sleeves have to be pressed in, and since the only sleeves available are either ductile iron or steel, they can be machined to increase bore.

So mine has been bored .5mm more than stock (which is not much) but that's because i have Golden Eagle ductile iron sleeves in my block. But just because you bore it larger doesn't mean it doesn't creat problems later. A larger bore means larger custom pistons and a head gasket to match.
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Old 03-16-2009, 06:11 PM
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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

Thanks guys. Do me a favor. COuld one you list parts the I need to buy( please spell ouyt, I dono know what IM means). This is my daily commute car so everything has to be legal. I am new to this. I was in san jose and I saw a 2001 prelude and it has had some power and thus this inspired me. I would realy appreciate it and would be greatful and thans fo your guys input
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Old 03-16-2009, 06:13 PM
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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

Quote:
Originally Posted by saaax650 View Post
thanks, The problem is I donot know how to drive manual. I can go 2 more years with tune up or mods. I was under impression that H22a4 engine cannot be bored akaprepreludesh has done it. I can propably go to $4.5K max spending.
At one point in you life ya didn't even know how to drive a car at all and now ya car. My point is you can lune and it's not that hard just takes time. Im guessing right now your in the low to mid 16's in the 1/4 and a 5speed can do low 15 with just a few mods and that will up your hp from about 160 to 180. We got a member that did a dyno b/4 and after his swap ill try and find it.

How come you don't want to go with boost? Just don't like turbo and what about a jackson racing supercharger it sounds so sexy, Hell even 98vtec one of are N/A masters is starting to take about putting his on soon and he wanted to be the first N/A lude to do 12's in the 1/4.


Ok i found it better then i thought his auto was 146 whp and 119 torque after the 5speed 189 whp and 154 torque so if ya want to bump your self up 50 more HP for under 5k the a 5speed is needed.

http://preludezone.com/showthread.ph...highlight=dyno
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Last edited by yogi_pahl; 03-16-2009 at 06:19 PM.
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Old 03-16-2009, 06:23 PM
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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

yes, buy a manual transmission and get it installed and learn on it. Then come back to us with how much you have left over and we'll advise on parts then.

Until then, you cannot tune a car with an automatic transmission. Piggy-backs are for the birds
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Old 03-16-2009, 06:44 PM
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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

Quote:
Originally Posted by saaax650 View Post
Thanks guys.My Prelude is VTEC with 195 hp and I have about $4k to spend
They "say" 195 when it was new, and that was at the crank. Remember, every engine is different. Also factor in some compression loss with the age, and not to mention your sh!tomatic. I think you'd be lucky to be putting 150 whp to the ground.
You need a manual tranny before you even think about making any kind of decent numbers.
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Old 03-16-2009, 07:24 PM
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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

I can have manual tranny installed on automatic engine and installed gears.
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Old 03-16-2009, 07:41 PM
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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude









your grammar makes me

If you're asking "can I put a manual transmission on an automatic engine block?" the answer is yes. There are some things you will have to purchase on top of just the transmission, like the shift linkage, manual transmission ECU and manual transmission flywheel (that one I'm not sure about but I think there is a difference between the auto's flywheel and the manual tranny's)
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Old 03-16-2009, 07:49 PM
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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

Quote:
Originally Posted by saaax650 View Post
I can have manual tranny installed on automatic engine and installed gears.
What ya need to know it begins: Drew's OFFICIAL 5spd swap progress thread
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Old 03-16-2009, 07:59 PM
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missin' the lude.

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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

Quote:
Originally Posted by akaprepreludesh View Post








your grammar makes me

If you're asking "can I put a manual transmission on an automatic engine block?" the answer is yes. There are some things you will have to purchase on top of just the transmission, like the shift linkage, manual transmission ECU and manual transmission flywheel (that one I'm not sure about but I think there is a difference between the auto's flywheel and the manual tranny's)
LOL god i had to laugh at that. this whole time im thinking, "what terrible grammar." then i see this. LOL
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Old 03-16-2009, 09:54 PM
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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

Cool, and I thought it was just me who was getting really annoyed with bad grammar and I'd get flamed for pointing it out!

I don't get it, I did get my undergraduates degree but even if I stopped at high school, I always knew proper grammar from not. I know some people have a fixation on l33t speak and just not caring, but when it's the difference between understanding and not understanding, I'd take the path of typing correctly and checking my spelling any day. After all, everyone can pick up a newspaper that's written properly and understand it, but not everybody can understand the sentence:

I can have manual tranny installed on automatic engine and installed gears.


I'm not kidding when I say I have no idea what this means or even if it's a question or statement.
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Old 03-16-2009, 10:04 PM
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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

has no one decided to tell him that they're "horses" as in "horse"power...not hoses...like in gardening...
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Old 03-16-2009, 10:20 PM
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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

Quote:
Originally Posted by saaax650 View Post
thanks, The problem is I donot know how to drive manual. I can go 2 more years with tune up or mods. I was under impression that H22a4 engine cannot be bored akaprepreludesh has done it. I can propably go to $4.5K max spending.


I don't get this sentence right here. Is he saying that instead of modifying his engine, he can give it a tune up and make it run for 2 more years? Or is he saying that he can hold off on modifications for 2 more years? Or that he only has 2 years left to live and he needs to do tune ups and mods to his car?

I guess I was just a little puzzled...
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Old 03-16-2009, 10:50 PM
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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

haha yeah i just kinda ignored that sentence. filed it in the "who cares"/ "wtf is this" file. haha
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my plan tho is if i get pulled over, i quickly roll down the windows, and detach the window fuse. that way when they try to catch me riding dirty and press the window button, im like "shoot ms. officer that goes wee oo wee ooo wee, my windows don't work"
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Old 03-16-2009, 11:11 PM
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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

I am sorry guys for my grammer,but you guys cracked me up by the way my mistakes have been pointed out. I was at work and had to type and send asap . Plus my english is improving. But I can teach you guys mathematics as I am very good at it.anyways. I am searching for manual tranny. I have one last question.
; If I install intake manifold,camshaft,cam gears and valve train. WOnt it add more compression for pistons and crank shaft to handle.Or do I need mods for them also.thanks
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Old 03-17-2009, 12:13 AM
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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

The whole problem with adding all that on an automatic transmission, is that you can't tune it. Camshafts will mess up the timing aspect of your engine and it will run very poorly. It will do this in the way that it will open and close the valves earlier and later depending on your RPM range, and your stock timing sensors won't be able to keep up. You'll probably throw an engine code too.

And even still, if you would be able to somehow get it all to hum together nicely, I haven't heard of one instance where the automatic transmission, whether in "D" or Sequential Sportshift mode, has revved above 6900rpm. So by increasing airflow and beefing up the valvetrain, what's the point? You'll be in that real big sweet spot where you'll be making all your HP from 7 to 8k rpm anyway.


You see what I'm saying? Take my advice, I've been down your road and I've came a long way. Read my build thread in my signature to see how my prelude went from zero to hero over 4 years and learn from my mistakes. But one thing is key, if you want more power, you must get a manual, end of story.

Good luck on your build, I'm here to offer my services and support to the questions you may have.

And thank you for the better grammar, we all appreciate it!
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Old 03-17-2009, 12:29 PM
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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

thanks for all your input. YOu didnot answer my q. I am going to have manual transmission installed . after that Iam going to have Cam gears, cam shafts, intake manifold plus valve train installed. Question is, do I still have to modify the block as the compression from intake will be too much for piston and cylinders to handle. It might blow up something. Thanks
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Old 03-17-2009, 12:37 PM
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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

your compression is not rated by your intake manifold head and what not. it is measured in the block. do you know how air gets sucked into your engine? when the pistons move down the cylinders it creates a vacuum and sucks air into them, therefore your compression will not change without block work.

go ahead and factor tune into your expense equation which will prolly be somewhere around a grand including dyno time. without this the parts you install will never perform to the standard they are suppose to. the tune ties everything together and will squeeze every last hp out.
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Old 03-17-2009, 12:46 PM
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You should not have to modify the block in any way. I didn't notice you said "pistons" as a part you were going to put in anyway. You have two choices in pistons if you do not want to re-sleeve the block, but want to increase Compression Ratio. They are the pistons found in the H22a (JDM) block (either 10.6:1 or 11:1 depending on which year). The second is from the company Mahle. They have developed a piston that actually works with the FRM sleeves of the H22 engine block.

The reason I bring up pistons is because with so much headwork being done to your car, it would be foolish to not get new pistons to take advantage of the increased breathing abilities of your engine. You see, when you increase the amount of air that can be pulled into the engine and pushed out, if you bump up the compression ratio you'll be compressing more air than before at and this will create more power.

Let me also caution you against buying any parts for your engine before the transmission swap is done. As a person who has around $35,000 invested into their $6,000 car, I've obviously been there and done that with all things considering engine modifications. Things will not go as planned and you'll end up spending more money than you budgeted for, or will simply not have a ride to go around in while your car is in a shop. And find a reputable shop. A shop that has a ton of cars in various states of disrepair inside and out, is probably a telltale sign that they won't put you high up on a priority list, or if they get discouraged with your swap, they'll simply add your car to the collection and keep putting it off. I've seen it happen, man.


And what transmission did you decide on? If you take my advice, it's do it right the first time, regardless of cost. Get the JDM LSD transmission now or get a regular base tranny with a Qualfe LSD put into it. You will regret getting more power and spinning the wheels later on, like I am. Do not under any circumstances, get the Type-SH tranny with ATTS.


On another note, you said you were having trouble deciphering what the acronyms we used were. Here is a short list so you can pick up what we're setting down:


IM = Intake Manifold
LSD = Limited Slip Differential
TB = Throttle Body
ECU = Engine Computer Unit/ Electronic Control Unit
ATTS = Automatic Torque Transfer System
CR = Compression Ratio
PS = Power Steering
FRM = Fiber Reinforced Material (refering to the sleeves of an H22a, H22a1 or H22a4 engine)

Adding on to what 1BadBB6 says, I was just thinking about this, but with 4500 to spend, you can purchase a JDM H22a with transmission for anywhere from 3500 to 4000 for a reputable one. If you get the cheaper one, you might have enough left to pay a shop to swap it in. And they don't have to tune the stock engine then, the P13 ECU (OBD1, so now you'll fail emissions if you're from a state that has them) will be already tuned anyway.

Last edited by 1BadBB6; 03-17-2009 at 12:55 PM. Reason: use edit function
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Old 03-17-2009, 07:16 PM
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Re: Question! Have 97 base model Prelude

Thanks a ton guys. YOu are very helpful and generous.
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