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Cleaned IACV and Surging Persists..

 
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Old 02-16-2009, 10:57 PM
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Icon5 Cleaned IACV and Surging Persists..

I removed the IACV and cleaned it with carb cleaner like so many of you guys have recommended. Yeah the screen was so choked up with black sooty carbon I'm guessing nothing was getting through. Cleaned the coolant passage ways too. Valve looked new inside when I was done, new gaskets and everything.

Now when it's cold, the motor still surges between 900 and approx. 1700 rpms. but doesn't seem to do it as long as before cleaning it up.

Is this one of those things that will eventually "work itself out" as the valve continues to clean itself up or should I be looking at another sensor, like the (?)Air Temp sensor (?) I've also read about?

I'm open to advice and suggestions here. Only 94k on the odomoter, otherwise no codes, or drivability issues what so ever.

Thanks
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Old 02-16-2009, 10:58 PM
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Re: Cleaned IACV and Surging Persists..

if you cleaned the passages there's a chance you knocked some **** loose which could have ended up back in the IACV...?
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Old 02-16-2009, 11:36 PM
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Re: Cleaned IACV and Surging Persists..

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Originally Posted by ogsmakdade View Post
if you cleaned the passages there's a chance you knocked some **** loose which could have ended up back in the IACV...?
That or you may wanna check the FITV
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Old 02-17-2009, 12:49 AM
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Re: Cleaned IACV and Surging Persists..

yeah check the fitv. i have been having the identical problem, and it is the fitv. if you take you intake off, you wiil see 2 holes on the left side of the throttle body. plug up the bottom whole when it start to surge. if it goes away then the fitv is bad.
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:07 AM
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Re: Cleaned IACV and Surging Persists..

read this thread and do all of it and if the problem persists then get back to us. http://preludezone.com/showthread.php?t=15234
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Old 02-17-2009, 11:33 AM
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Re: Cleaned IACV and Surging Persists..

my friend had the honda hiccup problem and he did something with his TPS and it fixed. this was, after he added a larger throttle body though.
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Old 02-26-2009, 03:17 PM
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Cleaned IACV and Surging Persists..I'm Back...

Okay after doing everything the diagnostic link suggested to correct the surging idle, (which had improved, but never went completely away), today during the emissions test, (pulling into the test bay, HOW LUCKY IS THAT???), the CEL comes on. Technician proceeds to test car and it fails as the computer has stored "P0505." On the ride home, the thing is bucking, fully warmed up, surging about 200 rpms and generally running like crap.

Prior to that no light, motor running ok except for the usual surging at first start up this morning. Ran fine, 40+ miles to the test station and now it's limping.

Code P0505 Idle Control System Malfunction

Thoughts , suggestions?? Now, I'm at a loss here....

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Old 02-26-2009, 03:42 PM
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Re: Cleaned IACV and Surging Persists..

ive had some similar promblems with mine a while back. i threw the same code as you did but i didnt kno how to fix it. i noticed that my coolant level was pretty low, so i filled that. i put new spark plugs in and changed the oil. and quincidently (spell chk) it was running fine after all that. im not sure if that had anything to do with the problem i was having but it fixed it and hasnt thrown a cel code since
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Old 02-26-2009, 05:14 PM
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Re: Cleaned IACV and Surging Persists..

I had the problem. Cleaned the IACV, and the surge went away. I then drove it around the block, and the surge came back. I still had to get to work (45 Mins Away) So I drove to and from work. When I came back home the car was surging and I let it sit in my driveway for about 5 minutes. Then the CEL popped up, and when I tried to drive my car it wouldn't go past 5 mph's. (Manual 5 Speed). So I pulled it back in to the garage, let it sit overnight. Started up the car the next morning and the surging was completely gone. Has been for about 2 months now. I think the ECU ended up fixing the surging after I cleaned out the IACV. But I have no idea if the ECU can even do that. Just a guess.
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Old 02-27-2009, 05:20 PM
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Re: Cleaned IACV and Surging Persists..

I got this same problem. I changed my IAC and it still does it. Now I'm stuck and cant figure out wtf to do. I have a 4th gen thought does plugging the hole isnide the throttle body work for me casue I did that but i did it on the uper hole on the throttle body and it still purges. It also bucks alot
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Old 02-27-2009, 09:29 PM
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Re: Cleaned IACV and Surging Persists..

I just got off the phone with a friend who is one of the top local Honda mechanics here in MD.

He told me that there is a large flat head screw, located in the top of the throttle body just under where the air cleaner hose gets banded on, at about the 10 /11 o'clock position toward the firewall.

He told me that this screw usually sits slightly below the surface of the TB and has a factory sealant over it, and if you're not looking for it, it can be easily overlooked.

He told me to locate it and remove the sealant over it, clean out the screw slot, run it out and check to see if it's all carboned up. If it is, clean it up and re-install it after blasting the area it seats in with some strong brand name carb / throttle body cleaner. Re-install the screw and back it out to the approximate depth it was before removal. Start the engine and then turn the screw in or out to obtain the FSM specified idle speed, (750-850 rpms).

He also noted that when the IAC is removed and cleaned, air gets into the cooling system creating an air pocket. The reason why sometimes having cleaned a functioning IAC and re-installing it makes no difference. Good point.

I hadn't thought about it and doing my research here it sounds like others with this problem could benefit from bleeding the air out of their cooling systems like the FSM describes.

If this corrects the surging problem, problem solved, otherwise I'm probably looking at a new IAC motor now that the surging is constant and I'm throwing a hard code P0505, and routinely resetting the computer to get out of the limp mode....

Just passing on what I've learned.

I'll update what my results are as I make changes.

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Old 02-28-2009, 02:49 PM
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Re: Cleaned IACV and Surging Persists..

Well, Half the jury is back.

As you can see in the...., (Sorry crappy photos), the idle screw was sooted up pretty good on 1/2 to 2/3 of its diameter. Cleaned it with carb cleaner and scotchbrite. Do not use anything too abrasive as it is brass and acts like a Fuel / Air mixture screw in a carburator. Also you don't want to damage the o-ring. You have to pull the MAP sensor hose and slide the aircleaner clamp around out of the way to gain access to the screw.

When you first locate it, it's covered in this gray epoxy type material, apparently sealed from the factory. With various dental picks, I carefully scratched at it till the screw slot was visible. Once I could see the orientation of the slot, I scraped it out.

Note of Caution: The screw has a loctite patch on the threads, (Mine was orange), and of course the o-ring you can see in the pictures. It takes a flat head screw driver that's just the right length, width and patience to keep from stripping the slot out. It's in there, it it's never been removed before.

I also cleaned the screw seat and passage out with carb cleaner, cleaned up the rest of the epoxy at the opening and swabbed the bore out. Lightly lubed the threads and o-ring with silicone grease and screwed it back in.

On initial start up it started to hunt and search for an idle speed. (I had set the screw at 2 full turns out off its seat), as a starting point. As the motor progressively warms to operating temp. I had to play with it until I finally set it at approx. 1 2/3 turns out. Idles perfectly at 850 rpms.

I'm about to road test it shortly, but the driveway idle test indicates I've made an improvement. Restarts are a breeze. Motor doesn't even turn over 1/2 rev. and it's running. I'm optimistic.

Now for the road test. More later.
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Old 02-28-2009, 10:28 PM
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Re: Cleaned IACV and Surging Persists..

Well after a roadtrip, (55 miles R/T), here's what I am able to report.

Idle speed steadily hunts between 1,000 - 1,100, (sorta like surges but is hardly noticeable unless you're looking at the tac needle), when the engine is fully warmed up, (27 miles.)

I'm guessing the curb idle setting is off now, (throttle stop under the T/B, set screw with jam nut needs adjusting?), or I have to turn the T/B screw some more when fully warmed up to reset idle speed to the 850 rpm I had in the driveway. I don't know whether to turn it in or out to make the correction and right now it is cold and dark here, and I can live with the way it's running right now. I'm confident that any fine tuning should be minor though.

I have to admit that the drivability has improved greatly.

Car definately likes to rev. faster off idle, which can be attributed to the faster idle too I'm sure, and the computer has probably re-learned a new mixture ratio that it's compensating for.

Taking off from a light is effortless now and cold starts are much improved over what they were, buzzing down the interstate accel and decel is also more seemless.

I'm going back to my mechanic and see what he recommends now that the car is reliable and is better mannered.

At this point I feel like this maintenace has fully corrected the surging idle and CEL problem.

One more minor adjustment and I'm done.
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Old 03-01-2009, 09:43 AM
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Icon14 Re: Cleaned IACV and Surging Persists..

Thanks, Man. That's what this is all about, helping others in need, enjoying these cars and powertrains and working with others to get the most out of them. Saving money and doing it yourself is cool too.

Sorta why I joined this site. So many cool people willing to help others out.

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Old 03-02-2009, 12:36 PM
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Re: Cleaned IACV and Surging Persists..

Would this work the the 4th gen. I have replaced my IAC, and most people are leading toward the FITV.
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Old 03-02-2009, 04:59 PM
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Re: Cleaned IACV and Surging Persists..

You'll have to look at either your FSM or your throttle body itself. Mine was difficult to spot because the mfg. does such a good job hiding it. Stands to reason that if you clean / improve 1 thing, (IAC), for example and no improvement is noted, the thermal valve is the second prime suspect, because it's the obnious second choice.

I'd definately look for it. By design, it's almost as if the throttle body has to have the screw to operate. The screw is the missing / unknown fine tuning element.

Good luck.

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Old 03-04-2009, 01:34 PM
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Re: Cleaned IACV and Surging Persists..

Cool thanx I'll try and replace the FITV
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Re: Cleaned IACV and Surging Persists..

It's probably your fitv what happens is there a wax plunger(its white and its inside a metal tube thing) that unseats itself and you have to screw it back into place, start by taking your throttle body off and underneath it is the fitv you have to take it apart and use a flat head screwdriver to screw it into place not to tight just snug replace the fitv and throttle body and that should fix your problem
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