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dyno numbers from today, on and off the nitrous

 
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Old 07-03-2008, 09:59 PM
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dyno numbers from today, on and off the nitrous

Well, here they are, I must say I was quite pleased even though I know they are just numbers, it is still nice to see. One is on the juice, one is off the juice. What do you think of the a/f on the juice, its in the low 13's below 13.5 the entire run, is that getting too lean?




Setup:

2000 Base
aem short ram intake
megan headers (soon to be installed)
greddy cat back exhaust
act clutch and streetlite flywheel
ngk 1 step colder plugs/ ngk wires
vafc (needs to be retuned)
zex 55 wet shot
zex bottle opener
dynotune bottle heater
zex pressure gauge
pspec short shifter
unorthodox pulleys
msd sci w/ blaster coil

Thanks to the guys at APG, they did a fantastic job putting my poor car back together and I am very thankful for their work.
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Old 07-03-2008, 10:02 PM
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Wow... U really got about 50 Ponies and 70 Torque. Thats pretty cool.
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Old 07-03-2008, 10:59 PM
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That's a cool looking graph!
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Old 07-04-2008, 03:04 PM
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very cool keep us posted
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Old 07-05-2008, 11:28 AM
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Whats with you hp from 5000 to 5500? Looks like vtec is set wrong. But those are good numbers and I want nitrous now too!
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Old 07-05-2008, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rory View Post
Wow... U really got about 50 Ponies and 70 Torque. Thats pretty cool.

Fo REEL! That's pretty amazing.



p.s. vtec needs fixing...
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Old 07-05-2008, 01:47 PM
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to be honest, we were both kind of baffled about that dip. I don't really know why that happened. I do notice when I spray kind of a halt before the power kicks in kind of like in an automatic car when you floor it and the car almost pauses briefly before increasing speed and rpms. I didn't really have time to sit there and figure it out, plus as rarely as I use the nitrous, I was happy with the power output and figured it wasn't such a big deal. The tuning was perfect for the car without the nitrous, that is how the car is driven 99% of the time. I figured it wasn't worth tuning it strictly for the nitrous when its not used very often. I couldn't believe the numbers we got from the 55shot, I didn't want to push my luck. Any ideas why I get that dip and where the vtec should be set? It seems to pull very smooth and if you look at the graph without the nitrous it is pretty even.
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Old 07-05-2008, 03:26 PM
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I know why it dipped. Seriously.. And its normal.
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Old 07-05-2008, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by THE ONE View Post
Fo REEL! That's pretty amazing.



p.s. vtec needs fixing...
Vtec is working perfectly. I will always dip upon engagement of vtec if you spraying are using force induction. If you want a more detailed anwser let me know.
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Old 07-05-2008, 08:54 PM
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Please explain, I have always felt that halt when spraying and had no idea what it was. Just assumed it was because I had no purge kit. Wasn't really complaining because of the amount of power we got out of that small shot. Why does it do that?
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Old 07-06-2008, 01:27 AM
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Vtec and all its working components was designed to work with a N/A Motor. When your car engages Vtec. You Cam Profiles changes. This is usually easy for the car to do under N/A Driving conditions. When you Boost your car with any kinda of force induction. With the increased Pressure that that the force induction creates. It makes it a little harder for your car to complete the task of changing the cam profile. This is why you see a dip in your Dyno graph. Almost Every boosted honda does this.

Have you ever seen cams you can buy that has the words Vtec Killer in its descriptions. This cam deletes vtec all together. Vtec is not as effective when your car becomes boosted and is alot less noticeable. So people ( after boosting there car with whatever kinda of induction ) will buy the vtec killer cam so they will not have the dip in power that the vtec creates. Its actually very common on Heavily Modded drag hondas. I would not put them in your car though. They was designed for race cars only. Not street cars. Its a more aggressive cam with major lost in drivability , and u dont gain much more power. Just get use to the halt. If you had a turbo or a supercharger. The halt would be alittle less noticeable. lol.
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Old 07-06-2008, 08:45 AM
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I never knew that Rory. I would've thought that VTEC would be ideal, you could have one cam profile for low down, no boost but retain some drivability and one boost friendly high cam profile. Oh well, I spose it's one more thing I didn't know.

Like I always say, what I know would fill a book, but what I don't know would fill the whole library.
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Old 07-06-2008, 08:58 AM
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Thats a good explanation, I will check out some other dyno graphs of nitrous and boosted preludes to confirm. Thanks for taking the time to explain, I appreciate it.
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Old 07-06-2008, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brash22 View Post
I never knew that Rory. I would've thought that VTEC would be ideal, you could have one cam profile for low down, no boost but retain some drivability and one boost friendly high cam profile. Oh well, I spose it's one more thing I didn't know.

Like I always say, what I know would fill a book, but what I don't know would fill the whole library.
You would think.. But here is one more thing to think about. Your total HP comes from how much and and fuel you can get in he motor. When your N/A, Changing the cam profile will make a big difference because you will dramatically change how much air the motor can take in on its own. Now when you have a turbo car. Most of the air that is allowed comes from how much boost your running. 18psi usually equals a "X" amount of power on simulator motor with small varies. If the cam changed profile under boost. It will not change the actual air flow to much because the turbo is still pumping the same amount of air preventing the cam from making a dramatic difference. This is why almost every boosted car makes almost the same dawm power if they have the same turbo and motor even if they have different other parts. With lower Pressure numbers like 4-8 psi. Vtec is still felt but when your doing 12-18 or more it almost becomes non existent. You dont even hear it.

Now... If you got just one big cam and never changed the profile all together. You will have a consistent power band and will be changing then air flow from the very beginning of the air flow growth. Making more power with less boost.
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Old 07-06-2008, 06:48 PM
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But (now humour me for a moment) if you could change the crossover point to where the boost starts to come in, like if she starts spooling and is at about 2-4psi at 4000RPM why not have the cam change over then, so that by the time you start getting the higher boost levels you don't need to worry about it?
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Old 07-06-2008, 07:33 PM
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If your car started the cross over at 4000 rpm. It will bog down and make a bigger dip in power even with the boost backing it up. This would be less from the boost and more from the natural profile of vtec. Your car would have to be revving alittle higher. But yes. I see where your coming from.

But Brash.... By the time you get to 4000rpm. Most people can achieve max boost by that time.

If i drove my car at 4psi. Vtec would still seem to work fine. His nitrous kit would make more power then that.

Another thing. Vtec adds alot of wieght to your drive train. With all of its components removed your car can rev alittle faster.

When your boosting your car. To gain alot more power through the drive train. it seems the best results come form porting the heads with a bigger TB.

Now dont get me wrong. Vtec still makes power. Its just not as significant when your using a much better power adder. It still gives me the drivability i want from my car with alittle more bump in the upper RPM. I would still want it in every honda i build.


******* You know what. Now that i think about it. Every time i tune the honda. I move the vtec engagement back to around 6000rpm are so. This almost gets rid of the dip. I would only do this on a turbo car though because most of the push would be coming from the turbo before Vtec. I wouldnt do it on nitrous because well...... u not always on the nitrous.********
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Old 07-06-2008, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rory View Post
Vtec and all its working components was designed to work with a N/A Motor. When your car engages Vtec. You Cam Profiles changes. This is usually easy for the car to do under N/A Driving conditions. When you Boost your car with any kinda of force induction. With the increased Pressure that that the force induction creates. It makes it a little harder for your car to complete the task of changing the cam profile. This is why you see a dip in your Dyno graph. Almost Every boosted honda does this.
that makes zero sense. Explain to me how its "harder" for vtec to engage on a boosted motor?

that dip can be tuned out. If you car has a dip like that and cant be fixed through tuning, then you have parts that dont work well together.
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Old 07-07-2008, 02:13 AM
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that makes zero sense. Explain to me how its "harder" for vtec to engage on a boosted motor?

that dip can be tuned out. If you car has a dip like that and cant be fixed through tuning, then you have parts that dont work well together.
Read the above post.

You know what. Now that i think about it. Every time i tune the honda. I move the vtec engagement back to around 6000rpm are so. This almost gets rid of the dip. I would only do this on a turbo car though because most of the push would be coming from the turbo before Vtec. I wouldnt do it on nitrous because well...... u not always on the nitrous.

Its always been none that you get a dip in power when engagement of Vtec happens. I have seen it on many dynos and many hondas. How i fix it. I move Vtec to a higher point. Its always worked for me. But you cant really do that on a nitrous motor unless you want 2 tunes. One for N/A and one for Nitrous.

Vtec was clearly made for a N/A motor. ( in the B-series and the H-Series ). Once you make big power from a turbo. There is almost no difference in power from the vtec engagement. U just dont feel it anymore. All you feel is boost. Vtec is still not bad to have. It doesnt hurt anything and its still good to have if you going to have riding on a lower boost setting or just plain for driveability. Sure there are boosted cams you can by that are alittle more aggressive. But guess what. They have a dip also.

Yea... im pretty sure you can work out the dip. But i promise he cant get rid of it with the supporting mods silverlude80 has right now.
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Old 07-07-2008, 02:32 AM
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that makes zero sense. Explain to me how its "harder" for vtec to engage on a boosted motor?

that dip can be tuned out. If you car has a dip like that and cant be fixed through tuning, then you have parts that dont work well together.
Not only that. Explain why you get a dip only under boost. I have seen 270Whp N/A hondas on the dyno with out dips. It seems to only come on boost. Even if im wrong about why it dips. I know the actual dip is pretty normal on a boosted vtec motor. I also know that moving it to a later point works great for getting rid of it. Its just my past experience.

I just think it would be harder from something like vtec with extra moving parts, to actually do its job under pressure when its was made and designed to do it with no pressure at all. Its easy to take a step foward. But its harder when something is pushing against you. And thats exactly what the pressure is doing to the motor.
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Old 07-07-2008, 08:49 AM
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i have tuned 3 turbo cars thus far and all of them i have been able to get the crossover smooth.




and i cant find my other graph at the moment

first one is k24T on kpro
second is lsvtec on Crome Pro

i dont have time to get into it, but there should never be a dip. Regardless if you are boosted or NA.
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Old 07-07-2008, 09:34 AM
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I did say u can get the dip out but silver cant get the dip out with is supporting mods. If you get a turbo kit with a FMU. U cant get the dip out also.
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Old 07-07-2008, 10:30 AM
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So what would be causing that dip then? Too much fuel, or not enough? I'm not really super concerned as I said, I use the nitrous so rarely anyway, it was more important to have the car running at its best N/A. It was just nice to see the high nitrous numbers and it pulls like crazy on the juice.
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Old 07-07-2008, 11:01 AM
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Your numbers on the dyno came out great. I would think the dip may be to much fuel because if you lost fuel for a sec it would propably lean for a sec and make more power then less. U wouild be able to fix the dip with hondata are some other tuning program of your chose but I wouldnt be to worried about if you not planing on doing much more to the car.
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:39 AM
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Agreed, thanks for the responses
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Old 07-09-2008, 12:44 AM
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Great numbers on the Lude...Keep updating
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