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Electrical Problem - Cranks but won't fire

 
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Old 06-06-2008, 02:15 PM
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Electrical Problem - Cranks but won't fire

2001 Honda Prelude base model, Automatic, 2.2L DOHC

I was testing one of the new hydrogen generators on my car for gas mileage and had the wires ran temporarily into the cockpit of the car that were attached to the 1st and 3rd wires of my MAP sensor. I was on the interstate this last weekend when my 6 year old son reached down and grabbed the wires and grounded them against a metal part of the car. The car immediately stopped running and has not ran since then. I have read for hours on different forums and no one seems to have ever had this particular scenario happen. The car was throwing fuel when the key was on and filled up the engine compartment and was pouring out of the manifold. I had the car towed home. After checking all fuses and relays under the hood and in the driver's side floor area, I decided since the car was throwing fuel that the ECU was probably the first victim. I replaced the P5M-L55 with a P5M-L54, the closest I could find anywhere and the only one available in the state of KY. That fixed the gas problem, but after blowing the fuel out of the engine and replacing the plugs, it still won't start. I have checked a plug out of the car, before the coil pack, and after the coil pack and all the car does is spark for about 1-2 seconds and then stops. We replaced the coil, the plugs, the ICM in the distributor and the distributor cap and button are only about 4 months old. It still does the exact same thing, it sparks for a couple of seconds and then no sparks. After extensive reading I decided it might be the Immobilizer creating the problem. My dad was an electronics engineer for years so he is very handy with a soldering iron and IC boards. I had him swap the Immobilizer chip from the old computer into the new computer. Still, it doesn't work. The green key icon comes on and blinks 2 times I think when you turn the key on and then goes off, then when you turn the key off, it blinks 3 times or 5 times. If it is the Immobilizer, I did not receive the Red learning key when I bought the car. The Check Engine light is not staying on when cranking. I am at my rope's end. I talked this morning to a technician that has been at the Honda dealership for over 30 years and the only other suggestion he had besides towing it to a dealer and having them check it with the HDS was that he mentioned that there might be a main ECU relay that is located under the dash near the steering column that MIGHT have blown. If anyone out there can offer any help, it would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks.
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Old 06-06-2008, 02:23 PM
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well you have pretty much replaced everything but the main relay. it could have blown up... i would recommend changing the oil also if that much fuel went into the cylinder cuz you could have gas in there
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Old 06-07-2008, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chasintn View Post
2001 Honda Prelude base model, Automatic, 2.2L DOHC

I was testing one of the new hydrogen generators on my car for gas mileage and had the wires ran temporarily into the cockpit of the car that were attached to the 1st and 3rd wires of my MAP sensor. I was on the interstate this last weekend when my 6 year old son reached down and grabbed the wires and grounded them against a metal part of the car. The car immediately stopped running and has not ran since then. I have read for hours on different forums and no one seems to have ever had this particular scenario happen. The car was throwing fuel when the key was on and filled up the engine compartment and was pouring out of the manifold. I had the car towed home. After checking all fuses and relays under the hood and in the driver's side floor area, I decided since the car was throwing fuel that the ECU was probably the first victim. I replaced the P5M-L55 with a P5M-L54, the closest I could find anywhere and the only one available in the state of KY. That fixed the gas problem, but after blowing the fuel out of the engine and replacing the plugs, it still won't start. I have checked a plug out of the car, before the coil pack, and after the coil pack and all the car does is spark for about 1-2 seconds and then stops. We replaced the coil, the plugs, the ICM in the distributor and the distributor cap and button are only about 4 months old. It still does the exact same thing, it sparks for a couple of seconds and then no sparks. After extensive reading I decided it might be the Immobilizer creating the problem. My dad was an electronics engineer for years so he is very handy with a soldering iron and IC boards. I had him swap the Immobilizer chip from the old computer into the new computer. Still, it doesn't work. The green key icon comes on and blinks 2 times I think when you turn the key on and then goes off, then when you turn the key off, it blinks 3 times or 5 times. If it is the Immobilizer, I did not receive the Red learning key when I bought the car. The Check Engine light is not staying on when cranking. I am at my rope's end. I talked this morning to a technician that has been at the Honda dealership for over 30 years and the only other suggestion he had besides towing it to a dealer and having them check it with the HDS was that he mentioned that there might be a main ECU relay that is located under the dash near the steering column that MIGHT have blown. If anyone out there can offer any help, it would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks.

Yep I was about to say the main relay but was beaten to it, I had to replace mine in my 84 Prelude a few years ago they aren't cheap either think it is in the neighborhood of $100, don't try to repair it I had a friend that tried this in his Civic with no luck just buy a new one. If you really want to sit their and wind a very thin piece of copper wire around like 2 million or so times be my guest.

Also I don't think you saved any money on the Hydrogen Gas mix. unless you can get that thing to run 100% on Hydrogen. I have several co workers here that are Engineers and they have tried and failed on their generators. However older carb ran cars work great I hear.
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Old 06-07-2008, 12:56 PM
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Got my main relay on Egay for $25 which is for sale if you need it if/when you diagnose your main relay is bad.

But yea, your getting fuel, and your only getting spark for 1-2 seconds....
MIGHT be your main relay, not too sure. i'm not that good w/ electrical prob's.
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Old 06-08-2008, 07:31 PM
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Not too sure but for the short time that I worked at Auto Zone they have these books on electrical stuff to tell them how to ohm out a certain part and tells them what reading you should have on the volt/ohm meter. So if you get that thing out its usually under the dash above the fuse box thats where my 2nd Gen's was you can take it to an Auto Zone and get them to measure it to see if its out of its rating if so you know its bad.
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Old 06-10-2008, 02:10 PM
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Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by chasintn View Post
2001 Honda Prelude base model, Automatic, 2.2L DOHC

I was testing one of the new hydrogen generators on my car for gas mileage and had the wires ran temporarily into the cockpit of the car that were attached to the 1st and 3rd wires of my MAP sensor. I was on the interstate this last weekend when my 6 year old son reached down and grabbed the wires and grounded them against a metal part of the car. The car immediately stopped running and has not ran since then. I have read for hours on different forums and no one seems to have ever had this particular scenario happen. The car was throwing fuel when the key was on and filled up the engine compartment and was pouring out of the manifold. I had the car towed home. After checking all fuses and relays under the hood and in the driver's side floor area, I decided since the car was throwing fuel that the ECU was probably the first victim. I replaced the P5M-L55 with a P5M-L54, the closest I could find anywhere and the only one available in the state of KY. That fixed the gas problem, but after blowing the fuel out of the engine and replacing the plugs, it still won't start. I have checked a plug out of the car, before the coil pack, and after the coil pack and all the car does is spark for about 1-2 seconds and then stops. We replaced the coil, the plugs, the ICM in the distributor and the distributor cap and button are only about 4 months old. It still does the exact same thing, it sparks for a couple of seconds and then no sparks. After extensive reading I decided it might be the Immobilizer creating the problem. My dad was an electronics engineer for years so he is very handy with a soldering iron and IC boards. I had him swap the Immobilizer chip from the old computer into the new computer. Still, it doesn't work. The green key icon comes on and blinks 2 times I think when you turn the key on and then goes off, then when you turn the key off, it blinks 3 times or 5 times. If it is the Immobilizer, I did not receive the Red learning key when I bought the car. The Check Engine light is not staying on when cranking. I am at my rope's end. I talked this morning to a technician that has been at the Honda dealership for over 30 years and the only other suggestion he had besides towing it to a dealer and having them check it with the HDS was that he mentioned that there might be a main ECU relay that is located under the dash near the steering column that MIGHT have blown. If anyone out there can offer any help, it would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks.

UPDATE

*** Okay, my dad found a 1997 Accord computer at a dealership and tried it on my car. It cranked, but runs funny, doesn't want to idle, but runs better when you give it a lot of gas. I am assuming either it is not a completely compatible computer or that it is for a manual transmission where mine is an automatic if I have done my research correctly on all of the posts on forums I have read. I think I am hearing that everyone recommends going with either a P13, P28 or P72 for my car. I know that the P28 doesn't look for the Knocks and a few other differences. I also know I am going to need a harness adapter from OBD2 to OBD1. Which computer would you guys recommend I go with? I am thinking the P13. They don't seem to cost a lot and they are very chip-able if I decide to do mods later. Does anyone have a cheap computer that they want to sell? I figure the price should be $50 or less for a used one for everything I am seeing on the web. I also need the correct harness. Those are listed online for anywhere between $20 and $40. All help is very much appreciated. Thanks.
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Old 06-23-2008, 11:34 AM
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**** Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by chasintn View Post
2001 Honda Prelude base model, Automatic, 2.2L DOHC

I was testing one of the new hydrogen generators on my car for gas mileage and had the wires ran temporarily into the cockpit of the car that were attached to the 1st and 3rd wires of my MAP sensor. I was on the interstate this last weekend when my 6 year old son reached down and grabbed the wires and grounded them against a metal part of the car. The car immediately stopped running and has not ran since then. I have read for hours on different forums and no one seems to have ever had this particular scenario happen. The car was throwing fuel when the key was on and filled up the engine compartment and was pouring out of the manifold. I had the car towed home. After checking all fuses and relays under the hood and in the driver's side floor area, I decided since the car was throwing fuel that the ECU was probably the first victim. I replaced the P5M-L55 with a P5M-L54, the closest I could find anywhere and the only one available in the state of KY. That fixed the gas problem, but after blowing the fuel out of the engine and replacing the plugs, it still won't start. I have checked a plug out of the car, before the coil pack, and after the coil pack and all the car does is spark for about 1-2 seconds and then stops. We replaced the coil, the plugs, the ICM in the distributor and the distributor cap and button are only about 4 months old. It still does the exact same thing, it sparks for a couple of seconds and then no sparks. After extensive reading I decided it might be the Immobilizer creating the problem. My dad was an electronics engineer for years so he is very handy with a soldering iron and IC boards. I had him swap the Immobilizer chip from the old computer into the new computer. Still, it doesn't work. The green key icon comes on and blinks 2 times I think when you turn the key on and then goes off, then when you turn the key off, it blinks 3 times or 5 times. If it is the Immobilizer, I did not receive the Red learning key when I bought the car. The Check Engine light is not staying on when cranking. I am at my rope's end. I talked this morning to a technician that has been at the Honda dealership for over 30 years and the only other suggestion he had besides towing it to a dealer and having them check it with the HDS was that he mentioned that there might be a main ECU relay that is located under the dash near the steering column that MIGHT have blown. If anyone out there can offer any help, it would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks.

**** UPDATE 6/23/08

I finally got the car fixed. I had to replace the computer with a stock computer, replace the Immobilizer unit on the steering column, and have Honda dealership reprogram the computer and cut new keys. Runs like a top now. Thanks for all of the help.
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ecu, fire, icm, immobilizer, spark


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