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k20 vs h22

 
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Old 05-22-2008, 09:24 PM
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Icon5 k20 vs h22

So here is the deal. My head gasket is on its way out. My car isn't moving for awhile because of some rear end suspension damage that needs to be repaired. I decided 100% that I'm pulling out the f22.
(btw the f22 may be for sale after the swap if I decide against a rebuild)

Now I have never heard of a k20 in a 4g, but I heard they hold boost a lot better than a h22, and I like the thought of a 6spd. Alot.

So my dilemma now ... Has anyone ever put a k20 in a 4g lude? I'm pretty set on doing a swap, and before I make any decisions I'd like some advice from someone with a little more experience than me.
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:01 PM
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As far as I know nobody has done it. Look around and see if you can even find motor mounts which im pretty sure you cant.

You will prolly be looking at custom everything. Check and see if a K series will even fit in your engine bay. deck heigh etc etc.
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smok3y View Post
but I heard they hold boost a lot better than a h22
DO you want power or just so u can say "i got a k20" ?

Hears my .02 from that i take it you will be going turbo soon. Why not just build up the you have or another F22? Hear me out, you would have to spend a good bit of money for a h22 even more for the k20 b/c it will have a lot of custom work, plus the money to get all the stuff to have it run and you will have around about 200-225 . You could take that money and build up a F22 and have about the same hp and it would be almost a new engine v2 the used one. also you would have some money left over to get a better turbo kit.
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:14 PM
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As far as I know nobody has done it. Look around and see if you can even find motor mounts which im pretty sure you cant.
You will prolly be looking at custom everything. Check and see if a K series will even fit in your engine bay. deck heigh etc etc.
Hasport sells mounts for the 4th gen It is not a K20 but the K24 for more Torque. So It can/has been done.
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:19 PM
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Not worth the headache.. H22 FTW
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:38 PM
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or what about a f22 block with a h22 head and get a G22 then turbo the heck out of it.
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Old 05-22-2008, 10:48 PM
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If you go with a H22 you can buy cross members, engine mounts, driveshafts, etc all off the shelf from your local Honda dealer, or from a junkyard second hand with ease. The H22 will bolt straight in. With the K20/24, everything will be custom since it's only been done a handful of times.

Save yourself the headache mate!
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Old 05-22-2008, 11:54 PM
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Well I want the k20 for the power and the ability to hold boost. I've done a bit of research on boosted h22's and I heard shiit starts fallen apart soon after boost. I have also done a bit of research on k and b series motors.
(and for the record I refuse to put a b series motor in my lude)

K20 seems like a great option. A little more power than the h22 stock, holds boost better, and of course a 6spd transmission. I'm not a gloater, believe me. I dont want a k-series just so I can brag.

I heard all internals need to be upgraded before boosting H series motors (compared to f22 with just forged pistons, and stock sleeves etc etc)

And the idea of a G22 scares me. I heard some horror stories.
plus I dont know anyone that has boosted a G22, and since this is my first honda build, I'm going to need a little bit of guidance (yes atleast I'm humble tho)

Wat ecu would I be using if I were to go G22? I'm still learning so bare with me here.
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Old 05-23-2008, 01:06 AM
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since ur going for power then the f22 built with a turbo set up i think would give you the most bang for ur buck. for the g22 i think it would be a h22 ecu b/c of vtec
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Old 05-23-2008, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Smok3y View Post
Well I want the k20 for the power and the ability to hold boost. I've done a bit of research on boosted h22's and I heard shiit starts fallen apart soon after boost.
And you will find in almost every case some corner was cut somewhere. If you do everything properly then H22s (and 23s) hold their boost with no problems.

To be honest with you mate, if I was putting this setup into an open platform then I'd go with the K. However because we're not going an open platform, you have to start to think of other things.

Do you service your car yourself, or do you send it to a shop? What will the shop do when they notice that your car has the exhaust manifold on the wrong side of the engine?

You also have to consider that the K spins the opposite way to the H/F series engines, so everything has to be customised. I've enquired to the K swap myself to tell you the truth, and it's just too much extra outlay for not really much gain.
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Old 05-23-2008, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogi_pahl View Post
since ur going for power then the f22 built with a turbo set up i think would give you the most bang for ur buck. for the g22 i think it would be a h22 ecu b/c of vtec
The H22 ECU is obd2 though... any others that are compatible that are obd1?

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Do you service your car yourself, or do you send it to a shop? What will the shop do when they notice that your car has the exhaust manifold on the wrong side of the engine?
Yes I work on the car myself. I don't trust anyone to work on my cars unfortunately. I worked at pepboys and seen some pretty dirty stuff done to cars.


Ok my next question would be then ...
What parts (if I were to go frankenstein build g22) would I need to upgrade. As far as internals and head work. I know fuel & spark and all that good ****. I'm saying as far as pistons, rods, crank, valves, lifters, etc etc etc
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Old 05-23-2008, 10:32 AM
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I would say go with the K24, it's torqueier (new word) has a much better power band and the power comes sooner. Hasport makes the mounts and axles for the 4th gen as well.

http://hasport.com/shop/index.php?cP...2c226100b4914f

Personally I plan on getting a K24 once my engine goes. Also, don't it for this reason, but you'll be very unique, one of a kind.

Does anyone know the "exact" weight difference between the H22 & transmission, and the K24/K20 and their transmissions? I'm really curious to see the numbers on a K24, both speed and mileage on a prelude.
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Old 05-23-2008, 12:17 PM
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I'm aware this is the 4th gen section but since we are on the topic, how different are the mounts between the 4g and 5g?(noob to the enginer swap area...) I want to explore the possibility of having the k24a2 on the 5g if my engine goes and since hasports has the mount for 4g.. I wonder if it can be used for 5g?
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Old 05-23-2008, 12:23 PM
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I'm not sure about that question but I did e-mail Hasport about it.

My 98' SH only has 83k miles on it so my engine swap won't be coming for awhile (fingers crossed). I hope to get the K24Z3 from the 09' TSX, it's got a little bit more torque and at a lower rpm, than the A2, although the max hp is at a slightly higher rpm. Do you think the K24A2 could be tuned to match the K24Z3? Or are they "truly" different engines?

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Old 05-23-2008, 12:26 PM
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pretty sure the mounts between 4 and 5G's are exactly the same, cuz both of them came with H22's, H23's, and mayyyyybeeee F22's.
so i see no reason what-so-ever why the Hasport mounts for 5th gens won't work for 4G's.
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Old 05-23-2008, 12:37 PM
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so i see no reason what-so-ever why the Hasport mounts for 5th gens won't work for 4G's.
The Hasport mounts are built for 4G's not 5th gens, I do see your point though.
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Old 05-23-2008, 02:47 PM
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The H22 ECU is obd2 though... any others that are compatible that are obd1?
H22A1's from 93-95 are OBD-1
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Old 05-23-2008, 03:18 PM
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So I just got done with a series of e-mails with a sales rep from Hasport. He essentially said they don't have any parts for 5th gens and that, "We may have something out in the near future."

He also said that "Honestly its not that much of an advantage being only .2l bigger than an h22." Which leads me to believe he doesn't know that much about engines.
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Old 05-24-2008, 01:14 AM
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no its not that he doesnt know that much about engines. hes trying to be cost efficient. it is not worth the headache to be "one of a kind." h22s are not as responsive to boost as the h23 or the f22. do a fresh rebuild, machine and build if youd like but you can turbo the stock block and as long as you arnt an idiot then it will hold. 8 psi on stock internals of a 23 is the max you can go with the motor still staying together. if you build the block and the head then depending on the build, you can make an ass load of power.
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Old 05-24-2008, 12:52 PM
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clere will become famous soon enoughclere will become famous soon enough
Step1: Swap H22

Step2: Take the money you saved from not buying a k series

Step3: Mod for more power than the k
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Old 05-24-2008, 07:39 PM
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Step1: Swap H22

Step2: Take the money you saved from not buying a k series

Step3: Mod for more power than the k
well back to my other question that never got answered ...

IF I were to go H22, what internals would I need to upgrade. And wat ECU exactly would I need to buy.
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Old 05-24-2008, 08:02 PM
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clere will become famous soon enoughclere will become famous soon enough
www.phearable.net I have a p72[gsr ecu] chipped...guy is amazing and has a lifetime warrant...hes good ****. I love the ECU

Internals depends on what setup you're going with...the basics like CAI, exhaust[no cheaping out :D]

Are you going with a turbo application or naturally aspirated....Pistons to lower/raise the compression based on that. Rods, cams, valve springs and retainers, intake manifold and TB, walbro 255 lph, its all on where you want to start.
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Old 05-28-2008, 10:37 AM
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www.phearable.net I have a p72[gsr ecu] chipped...guy is amazing and has a lifetime warrant...hes good ****. I love the ECU

Internals depends on what setup you're going with...the basics like CAI, exhaust[no cheaping out :D]

Are you going with a turbo application or naturally aspirated....Pistons to lower/raise the compression based on that. Rods, cams, valve springs and retainers, intake manifold and TB, walbro 255 lph, its all on where you want to start.
Thank you very much. I've decided on the g22 frankenstien build, just for the simple fact I want to be different, and my car isnt going to be on the road for awhile so I'm going to need a little project thats time consuming.

I was also looking over some things hondata had to offer, and reading testimonials online. I like what I've heard, and I think it would be a great buy (even though its an expensive buy). Right now I'm just set on fixing the rear end damage and then I'm pullin the motor out and having a field day. The k20 seemed like a great motor (but again expensive) and I want something that few people have done. I don't buy cars to blend in (although a little conformity never hurt) and I refuse to end up like those ricers down the road that throw fart cans on their car.

So all in all I appreciate everyone input in this. I'm glad that everyone on here is very informative, and willing to help those who lack the experience and knowledge. I'm sure I'll be asking for more help somewhere down the road (may be tomorrow, may be next year) but I'm set on doing the work myself, and feeling proud knowing that what is sitting under my hood, was covered with my blood, sweat, and yuengling.

Thank you.
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89 EB Edition Bronco - 6" RC Lift, 35" KO's, 302/c6 swap, Ford 9"
79 F250 Ranger Lariat - 9" Lift, 40" Ground Hawgs, 400M/NP435/NP205, D60/D70 Locked
And about enough spare parts to build 3 other trucks

"Does this truck make my penis look small?"


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Old 05-28-2008, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smok3y View Post
Thank you very much. I've decided on the g22 frankenstien build, just for the simple fact I want to be different, and my car isnt going to be on the road for awhile so I'm going to need a little project thats time consuming.

I was also looking over some things hondata had to offer, and reading testimonials online. I like what I've heard, and I think it would be a great buy (even though its an expensive buy). Right now I'm just set on fixing the rear end damage and then I'm pullin the motor out and having a field day. The k20 seemed like a great motor (but again expensive) and I want something that few people have done. I don't buy cars to blend in (although a little conformity never hurt) and I refuse to end up like those ricers down the road that throw fart cans on their car.

So all in all I appreciate everyone input in this. I'm glad that everyone on here is very informative, and willing to help those who lack the experience and knowledge. I'm sure I'll be asking for more help somewhere down the road (may be tomorrow, may be next year) but I'm set on doing the work myself, and feeling proud knowing that what is sitting under my hood, was covered with my blood, sweat, and yuengling.

Thank you.
Right on man, I'm always down to see some new/rare things. Good luck! :)
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Old 05-29-2008, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twokexlv6coupe View Post
pretty sure the mounts between 4 and 5G's are exactly the same, cuz both of them came with H22's, H23's, and mayyyyybeeee F22's.
so i see no reason what-so-ever why the Hasport mounts for 5th gens won't work for 4G's.
5th gen only had the h22...

the k20 is not as powerful as the h22 in stock form (as someone else said... don't just look at peak hp)... the k24 is, but the k20 definitely does not have the torque of the h motors.

smokey3y... you can get a cheaper ECU than the p72... there are some good tuning threads on here, but basically the OBD1 p05/06/28 from 92-95 civics, the pr4... etc... www.ectune.com ... will work.

new hondata supports the h motor ECUs p13/14, but ectune is a superior editor and will give you more gain. Be willing to take the car to an authorized tuner.. the dyno tune costs 4-500 bucks at my shop http://www.blueridgemotorsports.com/ , but they got over 45whp more out of a civic hatch h22 with bolt-ons similar to my signature. I watched the same car dyno at 204whp (65 above what it did with the h22 p13 ecu) this past weekend...

be willing to spend on a good tune, it is a cost effective upgrade that takes advantage of all those other upgrades you are going to do; this seems especially prudent on a Frankenstein engine as there is no stock map for your machine :)

getting upgrades without a tune is kinda like getting a huge subwolfer but no amp to provide it with what it needs and WANTS.
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Old 05-29-2008, 03:01 PM
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Like I said this is going to be awhile before the motor gets complete. This is my first honda build, and without a doubt my first frankenstein.

Thanks for the advice with the ECU's. I know I'm going to have to get it tuned. That wasn't even an option in my mind. Like I said, I'm going to do this, and I'm not going to half-ass it. I think this will be a great learning experience (and maybe a costly one too) but I am really set on learning honda motors.

I haven't heard anything about ectune, but I read a lot of good things about hondata, and a few people I know personally chose to go with hondata. I'll definitely look into it. I'm still pretty unbiased b/c of my lack of knowledge.

And it wasn't just peak power that got me interested in the k20. I heard they hold boost great, and its coupled with a 6spd tranny. But I've already decided against it. I'm set on the g22 build.
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No longer own a prelude - but got 3 Hold-me-over's in the mean time
02 Dodge stratus - All stock, my DD
89 EB Edition Bronco - 6" RC Lift, 35" KO's, 302/c6 swap, Ford 9"
79 F250 Ranger Lariat - 9" Lift, 40" Ground Hawgs, 400M/NP435/NP205, D60/D70 Locked
And about enough spare parts to build 3 other trucks

"Does this truck make my penis look small?"


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Old 05-29-2008, 08:16 PM
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Dont lie to the man ppl.If you can afford the swap go K20a2 with the 6 speed.

200 to the tires with a tune 220 easy stock.

With cams and pistons and a good tune I have seen 270+ and again its a 6 speed.

If your going turbo F22B not a H22.
If your going N/A do the K20a2 swap.


i am trying to gather up 4000 to swap one in my 94 eg bubble.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2008, 10:11 AM
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sounds like he wants the boost... :)

I was at no point trying to mislead, only explaining what I have learned about these engines.

I have no personal experience with the k24 (which the original post did not mention), but I know the h motors are going to give you more low end and a nicer torque curve than the k20a... I know next to nothing about turbo, but know that many people boost h23s (jdm f22B as ATL92 Lude said) rather than 22s due to the fact that it has a lower compression ratio.

Any new info is welcome.

6 speeds and you'll wear your clutch out faster ;)
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 05-30-2008, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by absntmnd69 View Post
no its not that he doesnt know that much about engines. hes trying to be cost efficient. it is not worth the headache to be "one of a kind." h22s are not as responsive to boost as the h23 or the f22. do a fresh rebuild, machine and build if youd like but you can turbo the stock block and as long as you arnt an idiot then it will hold. 8 psi on stock internals of a 23 is the max you can go with the motor still staying together. if you build the block and the head then depending on the build, you can make an ass load of power.
advice from joe's sisters brothers mechanic who read something online.



your little paragraph there is very vague and doesnt make much sense.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2008, 04:01 PM
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