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throttle body size.?

 
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Old 08-30-2015, 12:44 PM
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throttle body size.?

Hey it's going to sound like a noob question but what mm throttle body could I fit in my 96 honda prelude. I think the stock one is 60mm but I was curious if I could fit a 70mm. And if I would need spacers or not. It has the h23a1 nonvtec engine.
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Old 08-30-2015, 12:54 PM
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Re: throttle body size.?

Sure it'll fit....but unless you do a whole buncha other stuff it won't change anything except the looks.

Get ya some stiffer motor mounts, like 75 or 85 durometer and a grippier clutch and you will feel the difference.
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welcome to site Carl
...is a golden car fax kinda like a golden ticket? Sure hope willy wonka didn't put any snozberries in your motor.
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Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
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I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

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Old 08-30-2015, 01:14 PM
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Re: throttle body size.?

Oh okay thanks. About that gripper clutch. How much would that run me.?
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Old 08-30-2015, 03:42 PM
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Re: throttle body size.?

Anywhere from $175 to $375.
My son bought a Competition.

I have an Exedy stage 1 and light flywheel. Acts similar to a standard clutch pedal movement wise. But engages way more positively.
Lot's of car shake on take off when it's been a while since I drove it vs a regular clutch. But between when shifting while rolling, it'll snap your head back, unless you shift at high rpm's like some. Way more positive feel without all the chatter of the even grippier kind.

For daily driving, a stage 2 or 3 would drive you crazy. But on the track....you better aim where you wanna go, 'cause yer headed there in a hurry.
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welcome to site Carl
...is a golden car fax kinda like a golden ticket? Sure hope willy wonka didn't put any snozberries in your motor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elspectro29 View Post
Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

God's Not Dead

Last edited by bykfixer; 08-30-2015 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 08-30-2015, 09:14 PM
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Re: throttle body size.?

damn that was a good explanation...



My exedy stage 1 was a chattery chipmunk, coupled to an 11lb comp clutch flywheel.
But yes, that gives it some good feel, I jsut hate the engagement, but rolling and shifting does feel very nice. Power shifts were lacking cause my engine wasnt modified and that light flywheel would lose all its inertia between the shifts. Probably put extra strain on my crank bearings with the jolts.. Engine parts must support one another, so crucial to do more than one thing. Shift fork, etc... I want Type R civic....
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Old 08-31-2015, 02:48 AM
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Re: throttle body size.?

Be careful with throttle body changes. You can fit a 70mm and your butt dyno might notice gains in the upper rpms. You will need to grind out the upper plenum at the throttle body flange for the larger bore.

The reason I say be careful is because basic fluid dynamics. As the engine creates a negative pressure in the intake, air is drawn in (widely known, just had to start at the beginning). Air has mass, so as this negative pressure is created there is a very sort period of time that it takes the air to begin moving to fill the plenum, also once air is moving, it takes a moment for it to stop, this how na vehicles are actually able to build positive charge pressures to the intake valves. As this mass of air is forced through a small opening (stock tb) its speed increases dramatically, and this speed aids in the cylinder filling at low to mid rpm using the ram effect. Unfortunately, this small open can starve an engine of air at high rpms, that's why many people go with a larger tb. A larger tb however will not provide the same increase in air speed and cylinder ram filling will diminish and take low/mid rpm power with it, along with throttle response. Only going to 70mm, your butt dyno probably wont notice, but it is something to keep in mind.

Same principles apply for your throttle body spacer. As this pressure wave of incoming air is at speed, and the intake valves close, a pressure wave in the opposite direction (away from the valve and back to the plenum) is created. This wave will hit the plenum and bounce back towards the valve. The idea is to have a long enough runner so that pressure wave hits the valve just as the valve opens to aid in cylinder filling. For most cars this means at about 1500rpm, the intake would have to be about 7 feet long, since we don't have that kind of space, we let it bounce back and forth several times. The length required varies based on rpm, so again it comes down to what rpm range you will be spending most of your time in. Generally speaking, a spacer will improve throttle response and low/mid rpm power because it will give your air charge more time to accelerate to near the speed of sound before arriving at the valves, but can have adverse affects on high rpm power in some cases.

If your looking at larger tb's, I am assuming you're looking at higher rpm performance, either that or its just what the cool kids are doing. If you want the best high rpm performance and don't care much about low rpm power, get a bigger tb, bore the plenum, get one of those intake tubes that are all the rage, remove your IAB plate to shorten the runners, and remove your IAC because it hits without the IAB's. If you're real serious, port the intake also. And if you're even more serious, port the head, 7 angle grind the valve seats, and over size the valves.
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Old 08-31-2015, 08:49 AM
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Re: throttle body size.?

That's a good explanation guys thanks. But yeah I am looking at higher rpms somewhere between 3000 or 4000 rpm. (If it's not high enough) but I was thinking and would I have to reset my ecu if I was to get a different tb.?
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Old 08-31-2015, 09:25 AM
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Re: throttle body size.?

Aaaaaaand that's why I said "a whole buncha other stuff" earlier.
And the issue with that particular motor is more in the low to mid rpm's imo.
Even my little 2 squirrel Ranger motor goes zoom if you twist it hard enough....

But if you want PUNCH...the higher end of the rpm's on that motor without going inside and perfecting tolerances, lightening up on things and 'a buncha other stuff', won't get you anything noticable until she gives out all of a sudden like...then you'll notice a BIG difference. A difference you won't dig on...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogsmakdade View Post
welcome to site Carl
...is a golden car fax kinda like a golden ticket? Sure hope willy wonka didn't put any snozberries in your motor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elspectro29 View Post
Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

God's Not Dead

Last edited by bykfixer; 08-31-2015 at 09:27 AM.
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Old 08-31-2015, 02:19 PM
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Re: throttle body size.?

Quote:
Originally Posted by daniboii16 View Post
That's a good explanation guys thanks. But yeah I am looking at higher rpms somewhere between 3000 or 4000 rpm. (If it's not high enough) but I was thinking and would I have to reset my ecu if I was to get a different tb.?
3000-4000 rpm imo is mid range, but some might call it mid/high. Since that's the rpm you see at cruise on the freeway, I am assuming you want more pull away torque without a down shift? This would be a perfect spot to have vtec. Since you don't, you can try cams or cam timing. If you want more torque at that range, retard the intake cam 1-2*, and advance the exhaust cam 1-2*. Every car can be different, but 1-2* is a good spot to start for that rpm range. This will give you slightly more valve overlap increasing cylinder fill, but shouldn't be enough to harm off idle power too much. This on top of a tb may give you what you're after, but you could still benefit from a slightly shorter intake runner. If you mess with cam timing, remember to reset your ignition timing or you lose power. I forgot this was an h23 in my earlier post, the h23 may be able to remove the IAB plate without the IAC hitting anything. You wont need to "reset" the ecu for a tb, and you can get away without it for mild cam changes, but to get the full benefit (especially cam) you may want to look into it. I have been able to find small amounts of hidden power in the ecu on even some dead stock motors. What size tires do you have?
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