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Adding More To A Finished Show Prelude "Motor First"

 
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Old 08-05-2015, 01:50 AM
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Adding More To A Finished Show Prelude "Motor First"

Hey guys , My name is Joe , i use to own a duramax diesel 35k with intake and exhaust. Sold 16k :( 40k miles. Bought this prelude and two hyundias for my girl. Blew the motor in the prelude after 6 months " knew it was coming" only paid 6k for the lude. the audio system and seats are worth that alone. So i knew when buying it, id have to rebuild it one day. Now after talking to a buddy and when talk about resale value. Most people either want a show car or a race car not both. So when rebuilding i dont need it to handle 20 psi of boost or anything crazy. but the blow off sound adds to the sale value for sure. Im in L.A now and the kids out here got $. I want to enjoy it for a few years but i know i will sell at some point for something with RWD and back seats , maybe a wrx sti or something but that way down the road.

So my question for you guys is what motor do you recommend for a project build. im having a basic jdm put in it so i can use it wile i build this. i dont think ill have them put the turbo back on because i dont want to blow this one before my built one is ready. also if he put it back on now "i had no computer system so it can't be tuned" sounds risky but idk you tell me. Original motor h23a1 blew wile going at a steady 70 mph on my way home on the freeway. the air/fuel gauge was the only one not working when it got it. i think the ratio was off. after pulling the motor i could see one piston lost a pieace of ring and took a chunk out of the wall. Forgive my lack of car knowledge "i own a cell phone / computer repair shop & grow store " so most of my brain is holding technology or agriculture info , but i learn fast.

Anyways back to the built motor , i was reading about the g22 or g23 and i think they would require a lot of fabrication to make them fit the 4th gen lude. also i think most people who make these combos , do that because they dont want to spend the $ to have a motor machined. they are taking a f22 or f23 "because it already sleeved" and adding the h23 or h22 head for low compression and vtec. Since i plan on taking my time and doing this right , would a h22a or h23a vtec bored and sleeved with vtec be better then going threw all the work building a g22 or g23.



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Last edited by hobojoe00; 08-05-2015 at 03:23 AM.
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Old 08-05-2015, 02:48 AM
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Re: Adding More To A Finished Show Prelude "Motor First"

Needs a bumper sticker...










^^ This would do nicely.
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Originally Posted by ogsmakdade View Post
welcome to site Carl
...is a golden car fax kinda like a golden ticket? Sure hope willy wonka didn't put any snozberries in your motor.
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Originally Posted by elspectro29 View Post
Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
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Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

God's Not Dead
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Old 08-05-2015, 03:26 AM
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Re: Adding More To A Finished Show Prelude "Motor First"

lol maybe on your lude
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Old 08-05-2015, 03:54 AM
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Re: Adding More To A Finished Show Prelude "Motor First"

Wow, just wow.

Nice car I guess, not my cup of tea but if you love it then that's all that matters.

Sounds like you've done a bit of reading already. I don't think the Frankenstein G22/G23's were ever a good idea, people just did them because picking up a F-block used to be a lot cheaper than getting a H, it's not so much the case these days. You're right that running high boost on a stock H-block is a bad idea since you can't run forged pistons without chewing up the sleeves, you've already seen what 20psi + cast pistons achieves. H-blocks run a FRM sleeve (fibre reinforced metal) which is actually an aluminium alloy. By itself it's very strong but being unable to run forged pistons would be the weak point, or they can blow out with higher boost. F-blocks have more traditional iron sleeves but these are not nearly as strong as a proper "sleeved" motor.

Turboing a motor without any way of tuning it and/or running a turbo motor with no data logging or any active means of seeing the AFR are some more very bad ideas indeed. Sounds like your best bet is to ditch that turbo setup altogether until you at least have a computer.

Looks like from the pics you're running a H23 at the moment (or is that the one you've already blown?), does it still have any compression? It might be good as a runabout return it to stock and drive it until you build a proper motor.

Prelude's do have back seats stock by the way, they could even still be there under all that doof doof.

BTW, check out Bykfixer's build thread before you start on about his car.

Last edited by tassievteclude; 08-05-2015 at 04:00 AM.
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Old 08-05-2015, 04:15 AM
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Re: Adding More To A Finished Show Prelude "Motor First"

H23 vtec has a lot of potential. One torquey motor stock.
Add a super charger and zoom zoom!!

Eh, Tassie I had it coming. Once again my alligator mouth over rode my canary brain.
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Originally Posted by ogsmakdade View Post
welcome to site Carl
...is a golden car fax kinda like a golden ticket? Sure hope willy wonka didn't put any snozberries in your motor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elspectro29 View Post
Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

God's Not Dead
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Old 08-05-2015, 04:34 AM
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Re: Adding More To A Finished Show Prelude "Motor First"

Lol, I keep forgetting a H23 vtec is actually a thing over there. A supercharged one would be pretty bad-ass.
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Old 08-05-2015, 04:47 AM
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Re: Adding More To A Finished Show Prelude "Motor First"

Relatively inexspensive...but to do it correctly it takes lots of patience and research.
I understand there are a number of sites for larger engines where one can learn the proper basic stuff for the Honda motors.

I like the F motors just fine. But the H is such a beast from the factory...
OGSKILLET got 20+ hp from using only Mugen parts to make his breath...no tune or nuthin'.
Mugen header, and twin loop exhaust...I forget which intake (type s or ?)
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Originally Posted by ogsmakdade View Post
welcome to site Carl
...is a golden car fax kinda like a golden ticket? Sure hope willy wonka didn't put any snozberries in your motor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elspectro29 View Post
Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

God's Not Dead
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Old 08-05-2015, 01:06 PM
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Re: Adding More To A Finished Show Prelude "Motor First"

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Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
Needs a bumper sticker...










^^ This would do nicely.


this is not necessary. its his car, no need to take shots at something cause they like something different.
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Old 08-05-2015, 03:17 PM
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Re: Adding More To A Finished Show Prelude "Motor First"

ah i thought thats what he was getting at "with uncle ben lol" i bought it like this in miami. so uncle ben or jose owned it before. i will change quite a bit.

so it looks like a h23a would be the best starting point.

i talked to the guy putting in a temp jdm motor and he said all they have is h23a , so i asked if its the p13 or pde , he called back and said there out of the h23a now and only have f22b , ill have to wait a month for a h23a "remember this is just the motor going in it for now" , ill need another one in my living room to build over the next year or 2. So if he puts a h23a in it now. I can add a computer when i get time. then in a year when im done with my built h23a i could drop it straight in.

if he puts in the f22b and takes out my current h23a1. then when i go to put in my h23a it might be more work or no ?
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Old 08-05-2015, 03:51 PM
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Re: Adding More To A Finished Show Prelude "Motor First"

Quote:
Originally Posted by tassievteclude View Post
Wow, just wow.

Nice car I guess, not my cup of tea but if you love it then that's all that matters.

Sounds like you've done a bit of reading already. I don't think the Frankenstein G22/G23's were ever a good idea, people just did them because picking up a F-block used to be a lot cheaper than getting a H, it's not so much the case these days. You're right that running high boost on a stock H-block is a bad idea since you can't run forged pistons without chewing up the sleeves, you've already seen what 20psi + cast pistons achieves. H-blocks run a FRM sleeve (fibre reinforced metal) which is actually an aluminium alloy. By itself it's very strong but being unable to run forged pistons would be the weak point, or they can blow out with higher boost. F-blocks have more traditional iron sleeves but these are not nearly as strong as a proper "sleeved" motor.

Turboing a motor without any way of tuning it and/or running a turbo motor with no data logging or any active means of seeing the AFR are some more very bad ideas indeed. Sounds like your best bet is to ditch that turbo setup altogether until you at least have a computer.

Looks like from the pics you're running a H23 at the moment (or is that the one you've already blown?), does it still have any compression? It might be good as a runabout return it to stock and drive it until you build a proper motor.

Prelude's do have back seats stock by the way, they could even still be there under all that doof doof.

BTW, check out Bykfixer's build thread before you start on about his car.
Ya i hope the back seats are under that thing but i dont think so lol. i dont want to hurt the box removing it so i have it for resale or reinstall value.

yes the original motor was a h23a1 , thats the blown motor , its gone now , i left it at a bad shop when i left florida. they lost original motor , just glad thats all they lost , o and the key , well thats all we noticed so far. i had it towed to a new mechanic , im in los angeles wile all this goes down and im still here , wont be back for a year or so. :(

also about the computer advice , if they put in a temporary f22b motor and i buy the chips and ecu will the f computer transfer to my h23a ill be building ?
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Old 08-05-2015, 04:23 PM
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Re: Adding More To A Finished Show Prelude "Motor First"

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Originally Posted by M0B5TA View Post
this is not necessary. its his car, no need to take shots at something cause they like something different.
Look at you all kinder/gentler since the beamer...

how bout this?


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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogsmakdade View Post
welcome to site Carl
...is a golden car fax kinda like a golden ticket? Sure hope willy wonka didn't put any snozberries in your motor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elspectro29 View Post
Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

God's Not Dead

Last edited by bykfixer; 08-05-2015 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 08-05-2015, 08:00 PM
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Re: Adding More To A Finished Show Prelude "Motor First"

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this is not necessary. its his car, no need to take shots at something cause they like something different.
like running a built motor on a stock clutch
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welcome. I got some bad news, nobody wins at the prelude game lol
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Old 08-05-2015, 08:11 PM
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Re: Adding More To A Finished Show Prelude "Motor First"

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like running a built motor on a stock clutch
You're playing a little fast and loose with the term "built", I mean the motor sounds to be completely stock except for the turbo hanging off it. He's got bigger problems running it than a slipping clutch.

BTW, Uncle Ben's is a brand of rice, it's not a racial slur.
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Old 08-06-2015, 12:48 AM
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Re: Adding More To A Finished Show Prelude "Motor First"

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Originally Posted by tassievteclude View Post
You're playing a little fast and loose with the term "built", I mean the motor sounds to be completely stock except for the turbo hanging off it. He's got bigger problems running it than a slipping clutch.

BTW, Uncle Ben's is a brand of rice, it's not a racial slur.
It was a jab at mobsta for being cheap
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Old 08-06-2015, 01:01 AM
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Re: Adding More To A Finished Show Prelude "Motor First"

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Originally Posted by tassievteclude View Post
You're playing a little fast and loose with the term "built", I mean the motor sounds to be completely stock except for the turbo hanging off it. He's got bigger problems running it than a slipping clutch.

BTW, Uncle Ben's is a brand of rice, it's not a racial slur.
seems legit
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welcome. I got some bad news, nobody wins at the prelude game lol
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Old 08-06-2015, 03:43 AM
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Re: Adding More To A Finished Show Prelude "Motor First"

thinking about the f20b for the temp motor , if they do a h23a then they have to use my old h23a1 transmission because the h23a vtec only came with auto so the motors come with no trans. the f20b comes with trans and if i decide to build a h23a then ill already have a f20b trans to go with it. any thoughts?
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Old 08-06-2015, 10:38 AM
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Re: Adding More To A Finished Show Prelude "Motor First"

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like running a built motor on a stock clutch
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It was a jab at mobsta for being cheap

still running on OE Exedy clutch for 3 years. I have 2 transmissions one built LSD with stage 3 clutch waiting for the OE clutch to give out. its not my fault the Exedy is holding on like a badass. funny wings horsepower doesn't even add up to my torque
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Old 08-06-2015, 12:55 PM
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Re: Adding More To A Finished Show Prelude "Motor First"

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still running on OE Exedy clutch for 3 years. I have 2 transmissions one built LSD with stage 3 clutch waiting for the OE clutch to give out. its not my fault the Exedy is holding on like a badass. funny wings horsepower doesn't even add up to my torque
Tough talk coming from a guy that ran from someone in a duck costume.


Let me know when you make a pass.





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Op, just use your trans, its not a big deal. And I wouldnt waste time with a temp motor, get what you want the first time.
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Old 08-07-2015, 10:40 AM
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Re: Adding More To A Finished Show Prelude "Motor First"

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Tough talk coming from a guy that ran from someone in a duck costume.


Let me know when you make a pass.


I feel like a broken record but here goes. I love my h23a vtec. Took me a while to do the research and I still hit a few snags along the way. Thanks to a few of the guys on here and a big thanks to google, my car is running great.
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Old 08-07-2015, 12:03 PM
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Re: Adding More To A Finished Show Prelude "Motor First"

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Originally Posted by tassievteclude View Post
BTW, Uncle Ben's is a brand of rice, it's not a racial slur.
You mean it's not a racial slur towards Blacks (Uncle Ben) but towards "Rice Burners" (Asian's and Asian Cars)

It's all good Tassie... Just poking fun at you...
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Old 08-07-2015, 09:36 PM
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Re: Adding More To A Finished Show Prelude "Motor First"

i agree with you about "just get what you want now" i thought about it and it might be in there for a year. so ya id rather have a h23a in there until i build a h23a and get a chip for my comp so i can put my turbo back on.

I also was reading about LSD trans and i think thats why my h23a1 use to pull hard to the right when the turbo boosted , i dont think the oem h23a1 trans has lsd.

if i get the h23a for now i hope my h23a1 trans is still in good condition and it can power the h23a until i finish mybuilt h23a with boost "that config will need lsd ". my h23a1 trans might be bad tho and ill need a new one now. if i do then i want to get the lsd one.

i like the f20b gear ratio for boost , it has longer gears and a longer 5th for highway miles , after boost the longer gears will be nice , ive heard the h22a trans is to much shifting for a DD once paired with the h23a and turbo. what do you guys think?
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Old 08-07-2015, 10:52 PM
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Re: Adding More To A Finished Show Prelude "Motor First"

Pulling hard to one side doesn't necessarily mean it has an LSD. Only one true way to tell is by actually inspecting the transmission internals.

My Civic has an LSD, and my Prelude does not. It's really not much of a difference unless you're taking an on/off ramp at 50mph or so


Unless there are metal shavings when draining the fluid, i'm sure the transmission is fine.
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Old 08-08-2015, 09:11 AM
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Re: Adding More To A Finished Show Prelude "Motor First"

One way to tell is put the car on jack stands and drive it. Conventional tranny will start out both wheels spinning with the left side slacking off and stopping shortly thereafter.

H22 LSD Vs. Non-LSD Tranny - Honda-Tech
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Old 10-18-2015, 01:34 AM
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Re: Adding More To A Finished Show Prelude "Motor First"

So I got a h22a5 installed for now , it's running and sounds crazy with the turbo manifold with no turbo. Before I put the trubo back on I need to get a chipped ecu , I was lookin at a p72 with s300 v3 because it has a app. I have access to lots of free phones so I could put a note 4 in my dash between the cluster and gas/temp gauge. I've seen guys add tvs but a phone will have way more features. My question is , do u know of another tuning software as good as s300 that has a app. Does chrome or neaptune? I don't know all the tuner names or I'd look at there sites. Due to the lack of custom clusters and dash goodies could the tuning software send all of the info to the app ? Error codes , gas guage , engine temp etc etc ? If so I could replace all my guages with phones , and with apps showing your guage I bet u can change the look and colors all the time + get more info like air/fuel ratio and boost.

This is the s300 v3 app made by hondata but https://youtu.be/K9Jz0NHAXVA I've hear this 3rd party one is much better http://honda-tech.com/engine-managem...droid-3211301/

Just found the'd two but no boost
http://appcrawlr.com/android/dashcommand http://appcrawlr.com/android/obdlink...ar-diagnostics didn't think they would already have stuff for my idea. Nice

Heres one for boost http://honda-tech.com/performance-45...%2449-3203527/

So it looks like with the two apps I can cover everything from my fuel tank to boost. Do u guys think I can just take out my cluster and put 1 phone there and another phone between the first phone and where the old fuel/temp guage was ?

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