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New upper control arms - to lube before install or not?

 
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Old 07-21-2015, 06:44 PM
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New upper control arms - to lube before install or not?

Hey, thanks for the feedback.

I have loose ball joints in several of my upper control arms and will be replacing the arms tomorrow if all goes to plan. But I wanted to run this by you all for your thoughts.

The front are a set of Dorman, the rear are AC Delco. The bolts that sit on bushings are solid in place on the Dorman, can't move by hand. The AC Delco are loose and need to be tightened.

I was thinking I might as well add some silicone lube to the bushing edges that touch the metal arms just in case, to avoid any noise, while they are off the car.

For the rears that's not a problem because they are already loose and can be taken apart easily. The helms I have has torque specs for these as well.

The front Dormans are torqued way down and I dont know what torque to set them to when/if I rebuilt them. Interesting co-incidence that the Helms says "do not disassemble" on the front control arms (and likewise has no torque spec on the bushing bolts).

So, should I not bother with the grease and just install them as is? I don't want creaks and squeaks, but also don't want to mess up the new parts.

Thanks!
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Old 07-21-2015, 08:36 PM
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Re: New upper control arms - to lube before install or not?

The online manual in the resources section calls for only 30Nm (22lb-ft) to the UCA mounts at the front (and also says do not disassemble) but doesn't give a torque spec for the rears, could you please tell me what the Helms says for these? I believe the way this bushing is assembled means that the metal sleeve shouldn't move relative to the control arm, the rubber part should be doing all the work.

I just took my OEM rears apart last night and the bushings were very solid, I could not move them by hand. I suspect that by lubing this part you would be reducing its effectiveness by possibly allowing the metal sleeve to move relative to the control arm.
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Old 07-21-2015, 11:23 PM
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Re: New upper control arms - to lube before install or not?

Tassie, thanks for the input!

The manual I was referring to was the one from the resource thread, I was pretty sure that was the Helms. Anyway, we have the same one.

It looks like I was just reading it wrong on page 18-14, I thought the 30nm was referring to something else, but looking again I see it is the nut for the bushing. Thanks!

To your question, about the rear, see page 18-30. It has the torques for the rear UCA, 30nm for the bushing nut and 65nm for the body mount nut.

About the bushings, I always thought the metal sleeve and the rubber moved together, but I can also see it the way you describe.
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Old 07-22-2015, 03:44 AM
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Re: New upper control arms - to lube before install or not?

Yeah, I always thought of it as the bushings are there to control and restrict the up and down movement, but now I think about it your way could be right too. If these bushings can move freely then they'd make the spring/shock do all the work instead, as it was with mine even with the damper removed from the car it was still quite a bit of work to move the knuckle up and down by hand. The manual doesn't say to lube though, had a look at the Ingalls replacement joint installation instructions and they say you only need to lube up Poly bushings, which they come with their own special stuff, it says specifically not to lube up the rubber versions.

Thanks for digging out that info too, I think we might be using different versions of the manual though. My torque specs diagrams are on pages 18-10 for the front and 18-26 for the rear. Makes sense that the front would be the same as the back, but 30Nm doesn't seem like much for that size bolt. Oh well, trust in Honda.
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Old 07-22-2015, 03:45 PM
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Re: New upper control arms - to lube before install or not?

You should grease the barrels, the bushings, as well as any contact surface where the Poly Bushing contacts any metal "stationary" surface.

Here is the official installation instructions that are included with the Control Arm bushing set for a 4th Gen. Refer to Step # 3. It says to grease the inside barrels and the bushings as well.

Energy Suspension Control Arm Bushing Installation Instructions for 4th GEN Preludes

The reason why you are supposed to reased everything is because if you don't you will get what they call "stick-slip" issues...

This is where the bushing sticks to the inside of the A-Arm/Control Arm "barrel" and doesn't allow the A-Arms/Control Arms to move up and down freely like they are designed to do. With this condition, when you hit a bump or go into a turn, the bushing couldn't move because it was stuck on the metal surface and then will all of the sudden slip inside the "barrel" and the car would roll into the turn.

Another effect of not greasing them properly is that you will get this nasty annoying squeaking sound from the bushings rubbing on the metal when you hit a bump or take a turn.
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Old 07-22-2015, 03:51 PM
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Re: New upper control arms - to lube before install or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tassievteclude View Post
Yeah, I always thought of it as the bushings are there to control and restrict the up and down movement, but now I think about it your way could be right too. If these bushings can move freely then they'd make the spring/shock do all the work instead, as it was with mine even with the damper removed from the car it was still quite a bit of work to move the knuckle up and down by hand. The manual doesn't say to lube though, had a look at the Ingalls replacement joint installation instructions and they say you only need to lube up Poly bushings, which they come with their own special stuff, it says specifically not to lube up the rubber versions.

Thanks for digging out that info too, I think we might be using different versions of the manual though. My torque specs diagrams are on pages 18-10 for the front and 18-26 for the rear. Makes sense that the front would be the same as the back, but 30Nm doesn't seem like much for that size bolt. Oh well, trust in Honda.
With the Poly Bushings, they are meant to rotate inside the barrel and on the inner metal sleeves a little as well. I believe that a lot of people who say that their car "Bounces" after they replace their stock/OEM rubber bushings with the Poly aftermarket bushings is because the bushings are stuck in place and not allowed to rotate in the barrel and/or on the inner sleeve. If they are stuck good enough, these Poly bushings could actually rip or split, causing premature wear. These should last "forever" since they don't break down with oil and gas solvents like rubber does.

Just thought I would throw that out there to reinforce what you said.
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