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Logic-defying non-starter! Pls help!

 
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Old 07-18-2015, 11:19 AM
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Logic-defying non-starter! Pls help!

Hi all, from a lurker. Who now needs your help!

My 4G 2.2 VTEC auto won't start. Engine spins, I've sparks, and when I loosened the fuel inlet banjo and switched on the ign I got a spurt of petrol.

I can hear the fuel pump prime, I checked the PGM-FI relay and it seems ok.

Now I'm stumped. I must be missing something, but what?

This started the other day when the car wouldn't start when hot, I guessed the relay so I removed it and re soldered the joints. Car started fine.

Next day it wouldn't start at all.

Any suggestions appreciated!

Thanks

Andy
Kilkenny, Ireland.
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Old 07-18-2015, 02:37 PM
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Re: Logic-defying non-starter! Pls help!

Here's how I would go about it;

Does it have fuel to the injectors?
If no, why? If yes what is the pressure? If good,
Does it have spark?
If no, why? If yes,
Is it the right time?
If no, why? If yes,
Does it have compression?
If no, why? If yes, what is it? If good,
Does it have fuel through the injectors?
If no, why? If yes,
Is it at the right time?

If fuel and/or ignition is out of time, check mechanical timing.
If timing marks all line up, you have compression, you have spark, you have fuel,
Hook channel 1 of your DSO to the CKP sensor signal, channel 2 to the CMP sensor signal and compare the wave forms to insure the signals are in sync and clean. If they are out of syncor dirty, somehow the reluctor wheels got damaged in the distributor.
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Old 07-19-2015, 03:11 AM
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Re: Logic-defying non-starter! Pls help!

^^ Very good advice. Question though, how many backyard mechanics and DIY hobbyists would you expect to have an Oscilloscope?

If you have fuel and air and spark and good timing and compression and you're not getting any CELs then it might be time to take it to a pro.
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Old 07-19-2015, 06:23 AM
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Re: Logic-defying non-starter! Pls help!

I do have a scope actually, but I'm hoping not to have to get that deep into it!

I still suspect the PGM-FI relay isn't working properly, I've a new one in the way so hopefully that'll be it.

I shall report back..
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Old 07-19-2015, 08:56 AM
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Re: Logic-defying non-starter! Pls help!

You say car started after soldering the relay, right?
But did it do that hot..as in same as before you soldered?
If so, my pea brain says the relay is bad again. Don't mean your solder didn't work, just means the relay don't....at least that's what experience has taught me.
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I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

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Old 07-19-2015, 03:18 PM
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Re: Logic-defying non-starter! Pls help!

I think and hope that your pea-brain is right! It's of course possible that my soldering didn't fix it because the problem isn't at the solder joints, but something else, maybe a leaky diode etc.

I'll know tomorrow when my replacement relay arrives!

Tnx for your thoughts!
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Old 07-19-2015, 06:31 PM
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Re: Logic-defying non-starter! Pls help!

I've replaced electronics before, then car fails to go a few days later...nah, can't be, so I hunted n hunted to exhaustion and a friend would suggest re-replace the part and dam-if-it wasn't the issue again...

Hope your problem is fixed soon.
The same issue plagues 3g cars too.
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Originally Posted by ogsmakdade View Post
welcome to site Carl
...is a golden car fax kinda like a golden ticket? Sure hope willy wonka didn't put any snozberries in your motor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elspectro29 View Post
Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

God's Not Dead
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Old 07-20-2015, 03:41 PM
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Re: Logic-defying non-starter! Pls help!

Well the new relay changed nothing.

Stumped now.

The only other problem with the car is that the lower cam seals are obviously gone, as the plug wells are full of oil. I don't think that'll prevent it starting though, it must have been like that for ages.

Any other suggestions guys?
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Old 07-20-2015, 05:41 PM
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Re: Logic-defying non-starter! Pls help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alinton View Post
Well the new relay changed nothing.

Stumped now.

The only other problem with the car is that the lower cam seals are obviously gone, as the plug wells are full of oil. I don't think that'll prevent it starting though, it must have been like that for ages.

Any other suggestions guys?
Dratz!!!

Oil filled plug wells means time for a new head gasket kit..
Unless the plugs are oil soaked as well.

Do you have a service manual from the DIY section here?
Next step would be test the distributor and it's ignition module.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogsmakdade View Post
welcome to site Carl
...is a golden car fax kinda like a golden ticket? Sure hope willy wonka didn't put any snozberries in your motor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elspectro29 View Post
Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

God's Not Dead
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Old 07-20-2015, 06:15 PM
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Re: Logic-defying non-starter! Pls help!

Drat indeed. Ok will go that way next. Although I have sparks...
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Old 07-20-2015, 06:43 PM
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Re: Logic-defying non-starter! Pls help!

Oh, you have spark...

Hmmm...
How's the plugs lookin'?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogsmakdade View Post
welcome to site Carl
...is a golden car fax kinda like a golden ticket? Sure hope willy wonka didn't put any snozberries in your motor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elspectro29 View Post
Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

God's Not Dead
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Old 07-21-2015, 04:28 AM
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Re: Logic-defying non-starter! Pls help!

Difficult to know since by the time I'd withdrawn them from the wells they were covered in oil. But they all sparked ok.
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Old 07-21-2015, 11:00 AM
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Re: Logic-defying non-starter! Pls help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alinton View Post
Well the new relay changed nothing.

Stumped now.

The only other problem with the car is that the lower cam seals are obviously gone, as the plug wells are full of oil. I don't think that'll prevent it starting though, it must have been like that for ages.

Any other suggestions guys?
Spark plug wells "full" of oil? Of COURSE that can keep your car from starting!!... It will short out the spark dramatically and the firing end of the spark plug won't fire hot enough to sustain an idle...

Spend the $30 or however much it is for the valve cover/spark plug gasket set and clean out the spark plug wells with a long screwdriver or something of the sort, and then use either alcohol or WD-40 to clean the residue. Your spark plug boots will need to be cleaned as well to get the oil residue off. If you haven't changed your wires yet, now would be the time to do it.
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