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Old 08-06-2013, 11:48 AM
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h23 frankenengine

I need some help... I have an h23a3 not sure if thats what comes in 4th gen SI or not. But reguardless. I want to make a frankenengine. What are good ideas that keep the wotk/ price on the low side. Yet produce a fun outcome. B18/h23 would be crazy. I doubt that could even be accomplished... from what ive heard the h23 bottoms are weak.

is the old h23 bottom/h22 head my only possibility?
and any ideas on performance changes and where I would notice my power band would start rolling on?
How much cash am I looking at to get the head redone and what other parts will I need to accomplish this?
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:56 AM
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Re: h23 frankenengine

if youre looking for cheap youre looking for fail
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Old 08-06-2013, 12:38 PM
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Re: h23 frankenengine

well cheap but quality. not looking to build it up for boost. its still a DD so its not getting track abuse
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Old 08-06-2013, 02:39 PM
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Re: h23 frankenengine

H23 Bottom + H22 top has been done before.

I think the biggest problem users run into is finding a compatible ECU. I believe the VTEC H23's in japan only came in automatic flavor. So you would need an aftermarket engine management system, probably something like Hondata. Not sure, never really looked into it.

I would just recommend a JDM H22a drop in swap, little less heartache.

There's not much you can do to the H line that's "cheap". Any power gains will be about compounding expensive parts together. Just an intake or exhaust header will gain you 0.5hp. But a good intake, intake manifold, bigger TB, cams, pistons, exhaust header, injectors, upgraded fuel system and a good tune can get you up into the 250Whp range.
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:01 PM
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Re: h23 frankenengine

im currently in the process of doing this... h23a1 block, h22a head.

the build is gonna run me at the least 3-4k just a roundabout number... and im going with minimum that i can go with, but still trying to provide good power... i might change my mind though.... i have more important things to think about atm.... i might just buy an h22, or a h23a from the accord... or maybe an f20b and boost it on stock internals, sucks, i passed up an f20b for $450 like a month ago...
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:41 PM
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Re: h23 frankenengine

you need to get the crank balanced
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Old 08-06-2013, 07:27 PM
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Re: h23 frankenengine

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Originally Posted by 4GenLudeLover View Post
There's not much you can do to the H line that's "cheap". Any power gains will be about compounding expensive parts together. Just an intake or exhaust header will gain you 0.5hp.
True, true, and true.

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But a good intake, intake manifold, bigger TB, cams, pistons, exhaust header, injectors, upgraded fuel system and a good tune can get you up into the 250Whp range.
Negative. From the H23 you'd be lucky to see 200whp with that stuff.
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Old 08-06-2013, 08:25 PM
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Re: h23 frankenengine

interesting... well hell... an ECU for just a decent ones a pretty penny anyway lol... only figure I see was around 3-4k at that rate im better off with a turbo. running a small amount of boost so its still a DD and pulls hard. need something to smack people around yet can take me to work.

any ideas?
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:10 PM
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Re: h23 frankenengine

How does this build compare to this engine?
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:11 PM
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Re: h23 frankenengine

that's whats in my 5th gen. h23vtec baby!!! $1100 plus shipping from hmotors. best way to upgrade without spending thousands for a car with a tired engine. even though by the time I was done with other goodies, I was $2k+ into it.
but hey, that engine had to have a good clutch, manual tensioner, and a brand new oil pump.
I might have to eat ramon noodles, but my car shall eat steak.

your asking for trouble if u "slap on a turbo and keep the boost low"
be honest, do u have enough self control to get a taste of boost, and not wanna turn it up alittle, then a little more, then alittle more. Its like crack. and on a tired, old, weak cranked h23, your gonna get trouble.

do a swap for what your wanting. something more peppy, little work involved, no too expensive. and in the end, you'll also have a lower mileage engine.
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:16 PM
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Re: h23 frankenengine

or!!! I had another thought. if u wanna smack people around, keep your car as is, respect it as a beautiful creation Honda should have kept building, buy a cheap ass beater civic and do an h swap to it, gut it, tune and go smack ppl around in a car they think is fixing to fall apart. all while u still have a nice, dd.
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:41 PM
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Re: h23 frankenengine

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Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
True, true, and true.



Negative. From the H23 you'd be lucky to see 200whp with that stuff.
I hope you're not talking about the h23vtec because that's false. Mine makes 186hp to the wheels with just an sri with a flowstack. With a full exhaust and euro r im you'd easily see 200whp. As for the ecu a chipped p28 does the trick just fine.
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Old 08-07-2013, 01:54 AM
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Re: h23 frankenengine

I have the H22A4 bottom end with the H23A head, it runs lol
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Old 08-07-2013, 08:39 AM
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Re: h23 frankenengine

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Originally Posted by 4GenLudeLover View Post
But a good intake, intake manifold, bigger TB, cams, pistons, exhaust header, injectors, upgraded fuel system and a good tune can get you up into the 250Whp range.
Guys, I was talking about the H22 with this line, not to get confused. I would not recommend doing any of this work on a normal H23, just not worth it.
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Old 08-07-2013, 03:44 PM
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Re: h23 frankenengine

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Originally Posted by Vipers4Life View Post
I hope you're not talking about the h23vtec because that's false. Mine makes 186hp to the wheels with just an sri with a flowstack. With a full exhaust and euro r im you'd easily see 200whp. As for the ecu a chipped p28 does the trick just fine.
No, we weren't talking about a Euro-R motor since he didn't say he has one or wants one, right?



OP - H23a1 performance parts are rare..most people go boost to make them perform or do what you're talking about and put the H22 head on them, but the only instances I've read had reliability issues anyway, I don't remember why.

H22's have a much wider selection of performance parts, but they are almost always more expensive than B-series parts, so you're gonna have a hard time keeping a Prelude performance build on the cheap side if you want to feel a HP difference. Even if you decide to swap for a JDM or USDM H22, or even the EDM H23A, you're going to want to spend all the money you can reconditioning it with new seals and gaskets at the least.

A lot of the money you spend should go toward doing it right. If you do it that way, the best parts will go hand in hand with it.
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Old 08-07-2013, 04:05 PM
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Re: h23 frankenengine

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Originally Posted by 4GenLudeLover View Post
Guys, I was talking about the H22 with this line, not to get confused. I would not recommend doing any of this work on a normal H23, just not worth it.
Sorry, wasn't trying to be a doosh. But even with an H22, I'm several $K's into mine and am just south of 220whp on pump gas. It's a hard thing to do. Possible, absolutely. But not cheaply by any means.
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Old 08-07-2013, 04:06 PM
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Re: h23 frankenengine

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Originally Posted by blacktater View Post
interesting... well hell... an ECU for just a decent ones a pretty penny anyway lol... only figure I see was around 3-4k at that rate im better off with a turbo. running a small amount of boost so its still a DD and pulls hard. need something to smack people around yet can take me to work.

any ideas?
Will you be doing most or all of the work yourself? Or will you leave it all to shops and other mechanics?




Guess I coulda just multi-quoted all those, sorry to clutter up your thread.
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Old 08-07-2013, 07:25 PM
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Re: h23 frankenengine

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No, we weren't talking about a Euro-R motor since he didn't say he has one or wants one, right?
Lets see, h23 bottom end H22 head put that together and what do we have?
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if it's knocking, don't answer it. it's prolly nothing but bad news bears.
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As much as I'd love to see this done, I offer you the same comment I offer everybody else: There's no point in being the first to do something if you're second across the finish line.
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Old 08-07-2013, 11:15 PM
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Re: h23 frankenengine

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Lets see, h23 bottom end H22 head put that together and what do we have?
The south-side of 'basically', yes, if you want the reliability of a DSM..best not to mislead any future readers on the subject though. Go ahead and PM me if you want and we'll compare and contrast the results of our research on the topic.
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Old 08-08-2013, 02:40 AM
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Re: h23 frankenengine

im gonna stick with my build, h23 bottom, h22 top, and not call it a euroR, but i will put a typeR badge on my trunk, with typeR emblems, championship white paint, and nobody can tell me nothing because its my own custom build, so i can call it the H23 type R, dibs on engraving that to my engine too!
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Old 08-08-2013, 11:24 AM
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Re: h23 frankenengine

EuroR is not 95 stroke
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Old 08-09-2013, 12:46 AM
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Re: h23 frankenengine

Oh crap I was thinking the euro r was the blue top, my mistake everyone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twokexlv6coupe View Post
if it's knocking, don't answer it. it's prolly nothing but bad news bears.
Quote:
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As much as I'd love to see this done, I offer you the same comment I offer everybody else: There's no point in being the first to do something if you're second across the finish line.

Last edited by Vipers4Life; 08-09-2013 at 12:50 AM.
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Old 08-09-2013, 01:37 AM
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Re: h23 frankenengine

well every now and then when I do race my buddies its mostly from redlight to redlight. so huge boost isn't really needed, by the time it spools its time for brakes. I was between a boost setup and a frankenengine. both are time extensive but atleast I can do most of the fabrication of the piping. its not like im going up against corvettes. its mostly just civics and other stuff. figured the frankenengine would be better due to the lack of lag and it having a better power band.
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Old 08-09-2013, 01:44 AM
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Re: h23 frankenengine

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Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
Will you be doing most or all of the work yourself? Or will you leave it all to shops and other mechanics?




Guess I coulda just multi-quoted all those, sorry to clutter up your thread.
answer is... no ive got a buddy whos got a huge shop and he was going to do it for dirt cheap because I help him on his camero SS a lot. but I was planning on boost if this wasn't a good idea from others opinions. but from what ive gathered neither sounds good on an h23... what makes this such an off engine for performance? Ive only heard once that the h23 had a weak bottom and that's why people went for Vtec instead of the extra displacement. BUT ive also heard of people squeezeing more out of h23s than h22s
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Old 08-10-2013, 12:42 AM
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Re: h23 frankenengine

There's a combination of things that come into play with an H23(a1) N/A build. The bottom end isn't designed to be high-revving like the H22, but the way it's stroked helps boost it's torque numbers. You've heard of 'crank walk' I'm sure..well, even though the H23 is able to maintain a respectable torque reading, it's just not a motor that was designed to be a racer. It's not that the bottom end is weak, it's just the combination of crank design and rod length I think that gives it a bad reputation. When I was doing research on what to do with my Prelude, these seemed to be the reasons not to choose the H23 bottom end.

Granted, there's always things you can do to make it work. The weak links in the bottom end basically end up being the main bolts, bearings and the stress they're put under when being raced; From what I remember reading, the crank doesn't allow to the pistons to remain at TDC very long compared to other rod/crank combos, so the rods and pistons get whipped up and down more violently that a smooth 'roll'. That's obviously an emphasis on the issue, but when you're revving up something consistently higher than it was meant to be run, you can see where the problem can arise.

I saved a lot of links to info on all this if it's something you're really interested in, regarding problems people have encountered and other builds people have found success. Another great place to look and even better to ask questions if you're serious about it, this guy;

Quote:
Originally Posted by 98vtec View Post
EuroR is not 95 stroke
I would in no way ever argue a point with him because street smarts have taught me not to A.) Pick fights with Mike Tyson or B.) Argue math with Einstein. If it's possible with an H-series engine, he either knows about it because he's done it, or because he knows not to do it.



EDIT: Regarding boost, Torque is where it's at, and that's why this motor would be the more popular choice for it. Mobsta would be the guy to search out here on PZ for that. He has a scary awesome H23 boost build that's worth a read regardless of what you decide to do.
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