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New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

 
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Old 04-20-2013, 09:15 PM
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New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

First Off, Thanks for you time to look at my prelude and questions.

Briefing:
I'm new to the forum and new to Preludes. I've already done a ton of research and service manual surfing. I think i know what i need to do, but would like a little guidance from an experienced prelude owner. I just picked up this car as a project. I work in IT, and I definitely am not a mechanic.

Vehicle Description:
Vehicle is a 1995 Honda Prelude S with an F22A1. Supposedly was recently running, but is apart in many ways. I re-assembled the engine as much as i could. Bolted the dizzy back on and reinstalled sensors that I have. I still need a few sensors and need to bolt on the intake manifold. My goals are literally just to start the vehicle, and then I plan to rebuild the entire car. I just want to make sure i'm not wasting money on a dead/dying engine. The engine turns over, but i'm currently not getting spark to the plugs. My friend who is a mechanic said that it could possibly be because the ECU is throwing a code and causing it not to spark. I'm not sure how accurate he is, but i'm sure you will be able to point me in the right direction.

My Question:
Since there is many things that are still wrong: sensors not installed, vacuum lines disconnected, coolant lines possibly disconnected. Would my best troubleshooting involve me getting a code reader and just fix the codes as they display from the ECU? Once again, new to cars as a mechanic, want to learn as I go and need some advice. THANK YOU!

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Old 04-20-2013, 10:35 PM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

Welcome to PZ, friend :)

Nice looking lude, definitely a unique color. Buying an OBD1 reader and looking up the codes your engine is throwing would be smart. Although, I'm not a doctor so IDK. Hehe.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:34 PM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

Nice car. No rust? Great.

X2 on the Obd1 reader. Probably find one for the big 3 and get a honda chip to add. Could be wrong but that's what I've seen.

You really have your work cut out for you friend. But as an IT guy as you proceed and suceed you'll likely appreciate the thinking that went into that motor.

Heck if all else fails, another F22 isn't unreasonable.

Dying engine? Do the basic stuff like fire, air, fuel etc if you haven't already, check your timing and get back with us when you do.

Good luck
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welcome to site Carl
...is a golden car fax kinda like a golden ticket? Sure hope willy wonka didn't put any snozberries in your motor.
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Originally Posted by elspectro29 View Post
Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
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Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

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Old 04-20-2013, 11:45 PM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

Thanks for the welcomes.

My first goal is to start this up with minimal amount of money spent to make sure that the engine is at least capable of running. Once the engine turns on, I plan on disassembling, cleaning, painting and reassembling. I want to build this clean from the ground up, I just want to make sure the engine runs and that I don't need to swap from the get-go.

Questions:
1. Any suggestions on what code reader I should look into purchasing?

2. What would be the quickest way to just get this engine to turn on and run for just a few minutes so I can safely shut it off and then invest a ton of time and money. Once again would the reader be the best bet for this scenario?

FYI: The color is horrible in person. Haha, it's like a fleshy color and is really strange. The car will definitely be stripped and painted as soon as i get it started! It is extremely low. Lowered on coil overs and lowering springs. Shaved doors/bumpers with poppers and clean interior.

Thanks for your time!
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:15 AM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

Others can give specifics on readers. Amazon has some but what's good vs not, I dunno.
This place gets busy during the week. Weekends? It's pretty quiet here.
My mechanic charges $25. That's why he's my mechanic.

Sounds like you'll have a work of art in a few years.
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Originally Posted by ogsmakdade View Post
welcome to site Carl
...is a golden car fax kinda like a golden ticket? Sure hope willy wonka didn't put any snozberries in your motor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elspectro29 View Post
Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

God's Not Dead
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Old 04-21-2013, 01:33 AM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

no need to buy a reader, take a paper clip u have to find a blue plug under the dash on the drivers side look under the center part and it will have 2 holes in it plug the paper clip into it and put the key in and click it twice. ur engine light will then flash and that will give u ur codes. it will flash slow first then fast, if it flashes slow 3 times and fast 5 times thats code 35 after u get ur codes u can then look them up
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Old 04-21-2013, 08:46 AM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

I take it you have downloaded a manual? Or have one?

If not DIY here has 'em as a sticky. Be sure to thank mr. dallas.
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Originally Posted by ogsmakdade View Post
welcome to site Carl
...is a golden car fax kinda like a golden ticket? Sure hope willy wonka didn't put any snozberries in your motor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elspectro29 View Post
Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

God's Not Dead
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:27 AM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

I'll continue to use this forum for updated pics and upgrades. I have plans for turbo in the distant future.

I will definitely do the paperclip trick! Thank You!

Maybe snap some more pics today if I get time.
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:49 PM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by ispiff View Post
I'll continue to use this forum for updated pics and upgrades. I have plans for turbo in the distant future.

I will definitely do the paperclip trick! Thank You!

Maybe snap some more pics today if I get time.
plz do take more pics!
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:50 PM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

btw i like the rims
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Old 04-21-2013, 04:24 PM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

Welcome! That color is totally creepin me out. It's like old silly putty that doesn't glisten anymore when you take it outta the egg. Haha but everything looks clean! Aaand you have a cupholder that appears to be in working order so that's a headache all on it's own you won't have to worry about. Yet.

With OBD1, it's gonna be a little harder to diagnose engine failures. Like Project Lude said, the most common way to pull engine codes is by the paperclip method, which can get tedious after awhile. But then again, OBD1's aren't generally as regulated as an OBD2 vehicle, so from a technical standpoint it should be easier to get started, in the case you're missing a sensor or something isn't connected just right.

As far as I know, there's nothing the ECU will do to pull spark from the motor (I could be wrong, but never heard of such a thing). Given that assumption, I'd start working your way up the chain of electricity; Good plugs > plug wires > distributor > ignition coil...all the way up to the alternator.

Testing your compression is another thing you're gonna want to check. It's probably something you can do while you're working on the spark issue. A compression/leak down test will tell you what condition the inside of the motor is in, so you'll know if it's okay just to start up and go, or if it needs some internal work. You can rent a tester from pretty much any parts store like AutoZone, or I'm sure your mechanic friend will have a good idea where.

Good luck man, can't wait to see what comes of her.
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Old 04-21-2013, 04:35 PM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

Take it one step at a time with this project. If you're a hardware kind of guy in the IT field like I was. Then this will come to you as you progress. I have to say.. I'm a bit jealous...

YOU HAVE A CUP HOLDER!!!!
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Old 04-21-2013, 04:57 PM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

Guys,
I found portable cupholders at advance... in the stoopel-eedoo section... you know, the row with stick brake vents and flame stickers?

It's a plastic deal with a vertical section to slide between the seats and at the top 2 cupholders and a coin/cell phone tray. $6.99.
It works great for solo missions and can fit under the seat when ther's a passenger to hold your drink or when you don't want anybody to know you check out the stoopel-ee-doo row at while at advance.
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Originally Posted by ogsmakdade View Post
welcome to site Carl
...is a golden car fax kinda like a golden ticket? Sure hope willy wonka didn't put any snozberries in your motor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elspectro29 View Post
Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

God's Not Dead
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:10 PM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

I just want a working cupholder. I don't car if it holds a drink, I just wanna know it's there, complete, and works right.
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:19 PM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

Wow thanks everyone!!! More pics coming soon. I had a chance to wrench on it today for a while. New battery, plugs, and wires but unfortunately no spark. I was informed the dizzy is good but its definitive.

I had the coil pack connected and the first plug in the firing order and I grounded the plug on the frame as well as the engine block but no spark. My next move would be possibly replace the dizzy with a known working one?

Angelic: I'm in the whole IT field lol (hardware, software, web design, servers, networking, Cisco, Mobiles, surveillance, phones)

Thanks All!
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:16 AM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

You can pm 'jamie' or LilMsprelude. They are whiz's at electrical stuff. M sold his lude but still hangs around some and jamie's first prelude was a second gen purchased new.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogsmakdade View Post
welcome to site Carl
...is a golden car fax kinda like a golden ticket? Sure hope willy wonka didn't put any snozberries in your motor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elspectro29 View Post
Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

God's Not Dead
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Old 04-22-2013, 02:19 PM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

X2 on the comp/leakdown test...

Your block should be fine, f22's are tough as nails. I think you have got the iron sleeves in the f22 already, so you are starting off with a good platform for boost..

If you are going to go and replace everything on the engine and do a rebuild, I don't see any problems really that you will run into (careful with old bolts, PB blaster is a friend). If you are planning to do new sensors, seals, intake, exhaust, ignition system, then checking out everything really would be a waste..
PLEASE don't get me wrong, if what you are wanting to do is from a learning experience than a big thumbs up for u wanting to familiarize yourself with your Honda and I encourage you to do so. Have fun, good luck, read read read and here's a lil link to a vid I hope can help a bit. I have learned a lot from these visuals "etcg" provides..
This is my last resort, to resort to vids, but, sometimes they help. The manuals contain flowcharts, which as an IT guy you should feel very comfortable with all the step by step protocol. Happy idling...

OBD 2 your coil is inside the dizzy, OBD 1 it's external...


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Old 04-25-2013, 11:48 PM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

Thanks for the videos, they will definitely help. I have my trusty multimeter and test light, so i'll be going over the electrical harnesses throughout the vehicle this weekend. Hopefully can get spark established or at least determine a bad coil to get on a common ground.

Found a video that seems helpful, just thought i'd share:
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:38 AM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

Check to see if the ground wire that is supposed to be on the thermostat housing is connected, if it isn't it won't let you have fuel or spark. A lot of people miss that ground wire all the time.
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Old 04-26-2013, 09:39 AM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

Thanks for you input. I'm sure some research will explain where this ground wire and thermostat housing are located.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:28 AM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

Thermostat ground is kind of under the intake on the backside of the block I believe
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:36 AM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

Thanks -- I believe I already have this connected but I'm going over the whole harness hopefully Sunday. I'll post pics and results!
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Old 04-28-2013, 06:11 PM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

Bad Distributor? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Went out wrenching on the prelude today, and did some testing and troubleshooting, I also got some new pictures. I am not getting any juice at the plug wires, so I put my multimeter on the coil and cranked it over. The Coil was giving me voltage readings between 10v and 12v. After getting juice from the coil, I took the distributor cap off to make sure the rotor was spinning. The rotor was indeed spinning, but very slowly. The distributor had some cracks around the rotor and other places (See Pictures below). I would assume this would mean bad distributor and that I should get a new distributor assembly and test it out. All my grounds seem to be in tact. A few sensors are still not connected, but I wouldn't think they would need to be just to get spark. Let me know if you think i'm headed in the right direction or if i'm noobin' it up.

Thank You!

Cracks around rotor on in the dizzy


Took another shot of the dizzy with it off the head


More cracks around the rotor


Two wires on the harness that were cut


I believe this is a missing sensor, also there are two wires that look cut off near the ground


Pic of the front of the car. I took off the bumper and loosened the fenders so I can get it up on rams eventually. (It's really low).. Also put on a door with a handle, because the poppers were not working properly


Just a quick pic of the front interior


rear interior - not too shabby for $350 =)
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Old 04-28-2013, 06:32 PM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

For $350 you did good.
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Originally Posted by ogsmakdade View Post
welcome to site Carl
...is a golden car fax kinda like a golden ticket? Sure hope willy wonka didn't put any snozberries in your motor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elspectro29 View Post
Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

God's Not Dead
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Old 04-28-2013, 09:35 PM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

Well if the coil is working you would next check the coil with the wire that goes on to the distributor, have it on the dizzy and make sure you're still getting power at the other end of the wire, if not then the wire is bad. If that is good then next check to see that you have continuity on you're dizzy cap on the inside of the cap you will see little copper or bronze or what ever metal it may be made out if and check each of those contacts. Make sure they are clean also. If that checks out you will also to make sure that the rotor is clean and has continuity with the center metal piece with that metal pice that is on the edge. You can also just replace these parts because the parts on the car is old and should be replaced anyways but also check the ignitor inside of the dizzy. Look up "ericthecarguy honda distributor" on youtube he explains all this stuff very well. I know all this may sound confusing but if you have any questions just ask
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Old 04-28-2013, 09:51 PM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

Thanks for the input! I checked the wire between the coil and dizzy and it is getting power just fine. So from what I'm hearing all my remaining trouble is in the dizzy or dizzy cap so if I get another complete dizzy then I should be good for spark. I noticed the dizzy was in rough condition anyways. Also i can spin the dizzy with my fingers with almost no resistance, I'm thinking that the rotor isn't making contacts with the pins

Thanks again for your time and input! Much appreciated!
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Old 04-29-2013, 06:38 PM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

Picking up another dizzy tomorrow to troubleshoot with.

Just for the record a fuse or relay wouldn't be causing no spark at the distributor right? If a fuse or relay was bad it would cause no spark at the coil, correct?

Thank You for any input
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Old 05-05-2013, 02:27 PM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

Feeling bummed =/ Just put another dizzy and coil on it. Still getting power at the coil, but no spark at the plugs. Still not quite sure what is causing it. The wiring harness has some cut connector in it. I may just buy another engine and harness and be done with it... Any thoughts?
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:05 PM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

Can you tell which connector it is, harnesses are pricey.
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Old 05-05-2013, 03:33 PM
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Re: New Prelude Purchased -- Need Help Troubleshooting

Idk for sure what the connector is called I have pix of it posted above. But I hate to keep wasting money not knowing if engine is even worth it. I could buy a donor accord for $500 and do a swap?
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