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OBD1/ECU and tuning

 
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Old 12-15-2011, 03:27 AM
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OBD1/ECU and tuning // camshaft Q

Hi all,

I have another question; this one is related with ECU/OBD-1 and tuning…
Let me explain the whole story.

When I bought my BB1 it was tuned at approximately 240 HP. There were some upgrades: Honda Accord Type-R camshafts, Skunk2 intake manifold & throttle body 76 mm, H&R cold air intake, SMSP style header, High flow cat – Magnaflow, Greddy EVO catback exhaust system...

Since this is my daily drive, and I’m not some young racer I did down-grade to stock.

I bought stock ECU fot BB1, because I didn’t want to spend money on addition downgrade tuning. So ECUs were just swapped.

But back home, when I looked that “tuned” ECU it looked so “normal”. I googled the model (37820-P28-A01) and found out, that this is for D16Z6 or Civic Si,Ex (OBD-I Honda ECU Connector Guide)

And here is my question – is it possible to use this ECU with proper tuning on prelude and get out of it 240 HP? My guess is, that’s not possible and they gave my wrong ECU…

I forget to mention - previous owner claimed, that he bought it in US, that it was larger than stock one (this one it’s not), and he spent 400$ on it. This one is a lot cheaper on ebay – example: 93 92 94 95 HONDA CIVIC 1.6L M/T ECU #37820 P28 Virgin D16z6 Manual 5 speed OEM | eBay

Last edited by sojara; 12-16-2011 at 05:21 AM. Reason: Additional questions and therefore title correction
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Old 12-15-2011, 05:04 AM
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Re: OBD1/ECU and tuning

p28 is the ECU you need to tune so yes if it was tuned before then you should plug it back in.. if the car was running correctly with that ecu in there why did you swap it out? why fix something thats not broken?
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Old 12-15-2011, 06:40 AM
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Re: OBD1/ECU and tuning

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Originally Posted by SoFlaKidd View Post
p28 is the ECU you need to tune so yes if it was tuned before then you should plug it back in.. if the car was running correctly with that ecu in there why did you swap it out? why fix something thats not broken?
As I said, this is my daily drive, so I did down grade to stock. Meaning Skunk2 intake manifold & throttle body 76 mm, H&R cold air intake, SMSP style header went off the car and were replaced with stock parts.

That’s the reason why I swapped ECUs…

But you answered my question – P28 ECU is the right one to do tuning...

So obviously I got correct ECU back, although sounds strange, since this ECU is meant for use with 1,6 Civic….
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Old 12-15-2011, 08:03 AM
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Re: OBD1/ECU and tuning

chipped p28 ecu can be ANYTHING you want. doesnt matter where it is from, but that does matter what map you put in!

http://www.hamotorsports.com/socketedecus.html

btw, make sure that your TB is port matched to that IM... if not - problems.
(IMO that big TB is kinda overkill)
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Old 12-15-2011, 09:01 AM
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Re: OBD1/ECU and tuning

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Originally Posted by TypeT View Post
chipped p28 ecu can be ANYTHING you want. doesnt matter where it is from, but that does matter what map you put in!

Honda / Acura Socketed Chipped ECU's | HA Motorsports

btw, make sure that your TB is port matched to that IM... if not - problems.
(IMO that big TB is kinda overkill)
OK, I understand that now – thnx Below is a picture from inside, where you can see chipsets – can we say something about them?

I assume that you're talking about Skunk2 TB and IM? Those are not in the car any more...went to stock TB and IM...



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Old 12-15-2011, 07:34 PM
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Re: OBD1/ECU and tuning

i hope you took those cams out as well if you are running a stock ecu. a P28 is one of the most common ecu's used to tune. I had one for my 97 lude.
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Old 12-16-2011, 12:34 AM
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Re: OBD1/ECU and tuning

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Originally Posted by sojara View Post
although sounds strange, since this ECU is meant for use with 1,6 Civic….
Yup. Just like everyone else said.

The P28 Chipped ECU has an H22 basemap inside the chip, so that it has the correct air/fuel mapping. Then when you get it tuned, the tuner dialed in the correct amount of air/fuel into the chip to get the H22 running at it's best with optimum performance. Thats why you were able to run a P28 even if it's for a 1.6L is because of a chip inside with an H22 basemap. I have the same ECU tuned on CROME.
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The H22 wakes up the Accord in the same way a set of secondaries did to your father's Oldsmobile.
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Old 12-16-2011, 02:47 AM
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Re: OBD1/ECU and tuning

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Originally Posted by HypnoFish View Post
i hope you took those cams out as well if you are running a stock ecu.
No i didn't...can there be a problem and why?
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Old 12-16-2011, 03:39 AM
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Re: OBD1/ECU and tuning

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Originally Posted by sojara View Post
No i didn't...can there be a problem and why?
Yes it can. The factory ECU cannot compensate for higher lift cams. The stock ECU is programmed to work with it's factory parts. You should've left the P28 chipped ECU in still as all the work and tuned has already been done to keep the car running at it's best.
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The H22 wakes up the Accord in the same way a set of secondaries did to your father's Oldsmobile.
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Old 12-16-2011, 03:45 AM
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Re: OBD1/ECU and tuning

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Originally Posted by sojara View Post
No i didn't...can there be a problem and why?
the factory ecu does not 'understand' what those cams are doing since they are out of the factory spec.
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:05 AM
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Re: OBD1/ECU and tuning

That’s the first time I hear this. As far as I know, but I’m NOT an expert, accord typeR cams shouldn’t be a problem with stock set-up?

I forgot to mention, there are also AEM lightweight pulleys on... But again, I guess thats nothing wrong with that?

Last edited by sojara; 12-16-2011 at 05:20 AM.
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:45 AM
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Re: OBD1/ECU and tuning

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Originally Posted by sojara View Post
That’s the first time I hear this. As far as I know, but I’m NOT an expert, accord typeR cams shouldn’t be a problem with stock set-up?
better cams should be always tuned, there is always problems if your digital and mechanical activitys doesnt match

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Originally Posted by sojara View Post
I forgot to mention, there are also AEM lightweight pulleys on... But again, I guess thats nothing wrong with that?
they do not matter
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Old 12-16-2011, 05:54 AM
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Re: OBD1/ECU and tuning

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Originally Posted by TypeT View Post
better cams should be always tuned, there is always problems if your digital and mechanical activitys doesnt match
I was relying on this (please see italic text below) – but question is, where do accord typeR cams drop in – at Stage I?

Now I really don’t know what to do…? I definitely don’t want to damage my engine, and I don’t want to spent over 300$ for tuning just because of different cams?

Depends on the camshaft you select and what OBD system is on the car as well as other modifications done to the engine.
A lot of the pre-OBD II or pre-1996 cars you can get away with a mild camshaft change and not have to tune/reprogram the ECU. You will have to ensure ignition timing is correct and I highly recommend stronger valve springs and retainers. 1996 and newer there's a higher chance you will have a CEL turned on and it is best to get these cars tuned.

Most Stage I camshafts you can get away with no tuning and no other changes to the engine.
At Stage II things like stronger valve springs, retainers and a tune are highly recommended however they are not 100% necessary (If you run one of these with the stock valve train DO NOT increase the rev limit past stock or you WILL destroy the engine).
Stage III should only be ran in a properly setup engine.

Competition Cams (Zex) make some of the more popular "drop-in-and-go" camshafts as well as Skunk 2 and Crower Cams.
Source(s):
My current Honda (1995) is running a Comp 59300 camshaft, been about a year since I installed it. I ran untuned for a few months and everything was fine. I could tell there was more power even untuned but the cam never truly showed itself until after the tune. Also I never had a CEL come on before and after the tune.
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Old 12-16-2011, 06:01 AM
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Re: OBD1/ECU and tuning

see, how do you think that the cams benefit you if the ecu thinks that the car is still stock?
better cams never just drop in, or you can do that but its pretty pointless, because they doesnt work as they should and you dont get gains what they should bring

they require more fuel/more air, and you cannot provide that with stock ecu. you could try to balance them with better injectors/raising fuel pressure but those too
need ecu tuning

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Originally Posted by sojara View Post
I definitely don’t want to damage my engine, and I don’t want to spent over 300$ for tuning just because of different cams?
welcome to car modding world

Im going to dyno tune my car 3rd time soon and Ive been there twice already in this year :)

Last edited by TypeT; 12-16-2011 at 06:09 AM.
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Old 12-16-2011, 06:32 AM
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Re: OBD1/ECU and tuning

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Originally Posted by TypeT View Post
see, how do you think that the cams benefit you if the ecu thinks that the car is still stock?
better cams never just drop in, or you can do that but its pretty pointless, because they doesnt work as they should and you dont get gains what they should bring
That I understand – if I wanted gains…but all I want is stock car :) I did down-grade from tuned car (ecu, IM,TB, CAI, exhaust header) to stock ecu, airbox, header…only part, that is still changed are ATR cams…so I’m just wandering, if that can do any harm to engine or this ATR cams will work “as stock” on stock ecu?

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welcome to car modding world
thnx
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Old 12-16-2011, 06:38 AM
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Re: OBD1/ECU and tuning

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Originally Posted by sojara View Post
so I’m just wandering, if that can do any harm to engine or this ATR cams will work “as stock” on stock ecu?
IMO in longer run your engine could wear more with those cams

has the timing belt/water pump been changed recently? If not, you could do that and some people would love to get those cams... you could sell them and get stock ones in return - problem solved and you would get some money too
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Old 12-16-2011, 07:11 AM
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Re: OBD1/ECU and tuning

Sorry, but don't know what IMO is?
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Old 12-16-2011, 07:17 AM
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Re: OBD1/ECU and tuning

http://www.internetslang.com/IMO-meaning-definition.asp

Last edited by TypeT; 12-16-2011 at 07:31 AM.
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Old 12-16-2011, 07:33 AM
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Re: OBD1/ECU and tuning

ammm.... Embarrassed

Agree, but here in Slovenia, there is not so many prelude owners as in USA… everyone would love to have them, but no one has $...
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Old 12-16-2011, 07:37 AM
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Re: OBD1/ECU and tuning

you can sell them to US too?
I just got new cams from US and if packed right they can be safely shipped over seas (and theyre not that big that it costs a lot)
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Old 12-16-2011, 09:00 AM
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Re: OBD1/ECU and tuning

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Originally Posted by sojara View Post
I was relying on this (please see italic text below) – but question is, where do accord typeR cams drop in – at Stage I?
It would fall into the Stage 1 category. I have a stock JDM H22A cams set sitting around if you want. PM me.
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The H22 wakes up the Accord in the same way a set of secondaries did to your father's Oldsmobile.
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Old 12-16-2011, 09:13 AM
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Re: OBD1/ECU and tuning

@TypeT: agree - I checked earlier today at local post office for package (for skunk2) - just shipping it would be over 60€ thats 80$... :( And that's without insurance...

@Nusdogg: thank you for now, if I'll decide to swap, I'll PM U for price
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Old 12-16-2011, 09:56 AM
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Re: OBD1/ECU and tuning

Im changing my cams too theyre then from H22A5, not exactly sure when but during this winter anyway

might be cheaper to send stuff between EU countries? (atleast no taxes and customs)
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