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Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

 
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Old 02-21-2011, 09:51 PM
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Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

Hello everyone
I have been working on building a budget engine that consits of a f22b2 bottom end from a 1996 accord and a h23a1 cylinder head from my orginal engine.
I bought the complte f22 engine for $400 and has around 100 tho kms
So far this is what i have lined up and installed so far
f22b2 block
h23a1 cylinder head
h23 head gasket
h23 tranny
h23 timing belt and lower timing gear
P14 ecu
As of now thats all i can think of

From reading other forms on this kind of build i have noticed that some people have used honda bond or jb weld to fill in an oil passage in the head. but as i can see you dont have too because the passage dosnt even touch the block. also for the timing gears go the lower one fits in perfectly.
i only have a few pics right now but i will be updateing my progress along the way
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Old 02-21-2011, 10:20 PM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

the old h23 block
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Old 02-21-2011, 10:25 PM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

The semi new f22b block
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Old 02-21-2011, 10:45 PM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

can't wait to see this finished!
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:12 PM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

Ah... I dont mean to be rude but you do have to block it off.
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Old 02-21-2011, 11:40 PM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

Yeah you def gotta block it off or your gonna have one hell of a mess when you get it fired up
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Old 02-22-2011, 12:23 AM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

yes please block it off!!! and do you have to boar this block to mate it with the cylinder head? And what kinda pistons will you run?
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:22 AM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

hey good luck with it man i tryed to do the same thing and mine wouldnt even crank over nothing but good luck on it
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:02 PM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

i had put the head gasket on right side up, up side down, sideways... i cant see anywhere there will be a leak. On the bottom right corner beside your alternator and ps pump is where iv seen everone block off the passage but as you can see from my pictures there just indents in the head and dont actully go though to anything..plus they over hang on the block.

I also took the head into my shop class and removed all the valves and seals, had it washed out, checked it for warpage and cracks.
I had put new valve seals in and the cheapest i could find where $5 A PIECE! thats insane. but i need them anyway because you could see on the valves the amount of leakage they had. Another good thing to do when ever you remove your valves is to clean them on like a bench grinder with a wire wheel and reseat them...another words get some valve grinding calmpound(its like a gritty grey paste) and put some along the edge of the valve, put it back in the head and turn them till you feel the paste breaking down smoother(make sure you wipe the valve and its seat clean afterwards!) I just got a piece of cardbord and lined up my valves IN-EX so they go back in the same spots.
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Old 02-22-2011, 03:48 PM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

1. you need to put the head gasket on the block to see where the oil port doesnt match up. If you put it on the block it will be obvious where they dont match... I have done this swap and am driving it right now.... If you want pictures and info just look it up in my sig... or ask lol

2. I believe another term for what you did to the valves is called "lapping the valves" very good thing to do.
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Old 02-22-2011, 06:25 PM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

No offense to anyone, but I also done this swap and didn't block off that port that everyone said, and I've been running 500+ miles fine.
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:38 PM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

does it matter that he is using the f22b block? if I'm not mistaking Camshafted used the f22a block....

would that have anything to do with the hole that needs blocked?
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Old 02-22-2011, 09:46 PM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

That looks like its going to be a very cool build, I dont know too too much about engine specifics, but i would block it just to be safe if 3 or 4 people on here that have dont the actual swap theselves (just an idea) and

@Evangelist you could be right or just got lucky.. 500 miles might be fine for now, but later down the road you could have problems? I dunno im just throwing my 2 cents in there, id rather be safe than sorry u know what i mean?

stupid question, why not just put an h23 motor in there all together? why use the f22's block and binding it with H23 parts for the rest of the motor?

Im really curious about this engine build, because my 5th gen has 170k on it, and i want to start doing research on new engines, engine builds like this one to where when im ready i can build a motor for turbo thats meant and can handle turbo the best..

thanks and goodluck! Keep us updated!
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Old 02-23-2011, 12:03 AM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

as far as why, the f series block can handle boost without having to sleeve it. A 300 cost comparison to 1400. As far blocking the passage you are probably right, but I couldn't see a reason to block it when it wasn't physically able to go any where.

I'm actually running F22A1 Block with a H23 head
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Old 02-23-2011, 10:39 AM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

why not just put an h23 motor in there all together?
well my orginal motor had the h23 and not to hate on them but all the other ones iv seen all had blown rods/main bearing go out. so why not get a more cheaper and easyer to find f22 block, plus iv seen these things get well over 500.000kms on them. The head im using is from my old h23 but i had it cleaned up
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Old 02-23-2011, 05:16 PM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

So your saying the f22 block can handle way much more pressure when it comes to boost, was built better and is more reliable, but the head isnt as good as an h22 or h23, does this make it a faster engine with a newer head? And would there be any difference between putting an h22 or h23 head on a f22 block.. this is making me very curious and excited :P
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Old 02-23-2011, 06:06 PM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

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Originally Posted by gmoney5ss View Post
So your saying the f22 block can handle way much more pressure when it comes to boost, was built better and is more reliable, but the head isnt as good as an h22 or h23, does this make it a faster engine with a newer head? And would there be any difference between putting an h22 or h23 head on a f22 block.. this is making me very curious and excited :P
That isnt true at all. He may be mistaken. The iron sleeves of the F22 and Fblock are able to mated with forged pistons un like the H sleeves that are FRM. The H sleeves are actully very durable as well they just cant match the fordged pistons with out sleeves.
The F head is a very good design it flows really well and out flows the DOCHs as well

and if you put a H head on an F block you will have to bore it to match it with the head

and doing a H22 on an F22 head requires to convert a bounch of parts the touch the timing belt over to the vtech model becasue of the differenct in "teeth".

H23 i think may be a strait drop.

If wrong someone come check me.
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Old 02-23-2011, 06:08 PM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

any way to OP. what kind of pistons are you going to use?
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Old 02-23-2011, 06:14 PM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

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Originally Posted by gmoney5ss View Post
So your saying the f22 block can handle way much more pressure when it comes to boost, was built better and is more reliable, but the head isnt as good as an h22 or h23, does this make it a faster engine with a newer head? And would there be any difference between putting an h22 or h23 head on a f22 block.. this is making me very curious and excited :P
Because the F22 has iron sleeves, it can use forged pistons, which can handle more boost. FRM sleeves don't work with forged pistons, and cast pistons don't boost well. Other than that the two blocks are basically the same. F22B1/2 and F23 heads flow like crap. F22Ax and H23 heads flow much better, and having two cams allows you to adjust them independent of each other
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Old 02-23-2011, 10:13 PM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

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That isnt true at all. He may be mistaken. The iron sleeves of the F22 and Fblock are able to mated with forged pistons un like the H sleeves that are FRM. The H sleeves are actully very durable as well they just cant match the fordged pistons with out sleeves.
The F head is a very good design it flows really well and out flows the DOCHs as well

As far as the forged pistons with the H block, there is only one company who makes forged pistons that will just drop in but it has a special coating on them and thats Mahle.

and if you put a H head on an F block you will have to bore it to match it with the head

No you don't have to, unless you want to completely maximize flow, but not a necessity. However, if you want to use the h23/h22 pistons you will have to bore, but if you decide to use h22 then you have to use either h23/f22 rods

and doing a H22 on an F22 head requires to convert a bounch of parts the touch the timing belt over to the vtech model becasue of the differenct in "teeth".

For an h23 its not a bunch of parts its only like 4 pieces. but however if you do want to do the h22 head than your also going to need the P13 ECU and Wire the Vtec, unless you get the engine harness too.


H23 i think may be a strait drop.

If wrong someone come check me.
I've done alooooot of research on the G22/G23 Swap lol.

Also let me add that the f series is an iron block which can handle boost better, I have seen plenty of Accords run on a stock block running 10psi, but thats if you have a healthy motor and a great tune.

Last edited by Evangelist; 02-23-2011 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 02-23-2011, 11:31 PM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

so just an update i got the nessary timing gear off today and let me tell you that the crank pully bolt was a F@$* to get off, i managed to get a breaker bar with one long ass pipe to get it loose, i had to use the crank pully tool to stop it from turing. Picked it up at cananadian tire for 35$. so right now im trying to get eventhing lined up such as the timing marks but i ran into a prob because the f22b2 block dosnt have the lil plug between the tranny so i cant see any of the timing marks on the fly wheel....so i did a little thinking and took out cylinder #1 spark plug and shined my light down to see when it was at TDC haha, also i need to find out where does the marks on the oil pump and balancer shaft half to be? do they have to be stright up? or pointing towards each other? i know the cams have the arrows and have to be up. In my pic is the only gear i swaped over to the f22 block and im going to use the f22 crank pully as well because im not sure if there is any weight diff between the h23 one, they apper to be the same size but have diff designs
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Old 02-23-2011, 11:57 PM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

whenever I timed mine. we just used the regular timing on the crankshaft as far as the Balance shaft, I'm actually running without them. The oil pump will have a timing mark on it as well as the Crankshaft gear, You will align those two together.

Fortunately for me, my F22A1 had the flywheel access
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Old 02-24-2011, 12:03 AM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

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Originally Posted by Evangelist View Post
I've done alooooot of research on the G22/G23 Swap lol.

Also let me add that the f series is an iron block which can handle boost better, I have seen plenty of Accords run on a stock block running 10psi, but thats if you have a healthy motor and a great tune.
i never said there are a bunch of parts for the H23, and thank you for adding The mahle comment i completly forgot about them
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Last edited by naj3000; 02-24-2011 at 12:06 AM.
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Old 02-24-2011, 04:40 PM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

I know, I was just saying going for h23 isn't alot of parts and going to h22 is only a few extra from the h23, mainly just ecu, wiring harness unless you plan on wiring up the vtec on your own, and headers.
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Old 02-24-2011, 08:14 PM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

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I know, I was just saying going for h23 isn't alot of parts and going to h22 is only a few extra from the h23, mainly just ecu, wiring harness unless you plan on wiring up the vtec on your own, and headers.
ok cool.
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Old 02-25-2011, 02:34 PM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

OK so I figured it out. There must be some discrepancy between teh F22A1 (which is the bottum end I used) and the F22B. I know for a fact that for the F22A1 you NEED to block off that oil port. But apparently you dont on the F22B... You're welcome
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I agree with camshafted on this one.

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The only thing realistic about The Fast and the Furious is that the DSM breaks in the first race!
94 Civic EX - Totalled
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89 CRX (Stock) - Sold
94 Civic EX - Totalled
92 Prelude Si - Blown Motor
96 Chevy S10 (3inch lift kit, tinted windows, sound system, sunroof, ballin!) - Sold
96 Ford Explorer A.K.A: Chopsmobile (If you drive it you will know why I call it the Chopsmobile) - Blown Tranny
91 Honda Accord (Stock) - DD
99 Hyundai Elantra - Sold
99 Ford Taurus - doin it...
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Old 02-25-2011, 05:49 PM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

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Originally Posted by Camshafted View Post
OK so I figured it out. There must be some discrepancy between teh F22A1 (which is the bottum end I used) and the F22B. I know for a fact that for the F22A1 you NEED to block off that oil port. But apparently you dont on the F22B... You're welcome
Well i know i didnt have to block it but i didnt want to say you were worng eather, so ya there must be a little bit of difference between the a1 and b2 blocks
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Old 02-25-2011, 06:05 PM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

Allright so i got all the fluids in, wires hooked up and the timing belts on. turned the key and the battery is dead gah. so i got the booster on and the engine cranks over but no fire!!!. SO after cranking it over about 5 times i get out and have a look and my timing belt is looose....like loose loose. wtf? the tensoner is all the way and wont make the belt any tighter so i think my belt might be streched as im reuseing it due to low mola funds. also it sounds like there isnt any spark. i know its getting fuel and all the grounds are new and tight...i might go check some of the fuses later tonight....Hopefully i find something fishy going on..
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Old 02-25-2011, 06:12 PM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

oh and i dont have the alternator belt on because i have to buy a smaller one sence i removed the A/C...
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Old 02-25-2011, 06:19 PM
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Re: Jlude's f22b h23 frankenstein build

Yeah well I know I had to block off mine. So we were both right haha.

When I did mine, I also wasnt getting spark. I got a new dizzy and it was getting spark but not starting. Turns out the plug wires werent on right. Look at a pic on googel and make sure they are in the right spots.

With your timing, make sure you tighten the adjusting bolts on the tensioners. I just took the springs off and pushed them down with my finger to make them tight and then tightened the screws.

Hope that helps.

Also I know it is more money but it is a good idea to get a new timing belt. Better to do it now than pay for another motor later. Same with a water pump.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardKnoxBB2 View Post
I agree with camshafted on this one.

My Build thread (F22/H23)

The only thing realistic about The Fast and the Furious is that the DSM breaks in the first race!
94 Civic EX - Totalled
89 Civic Hatch (fidanza flywheel, excedy clutch, intake, exhaust, short shifter, tein drop coils, D16ZC) -Sold
89 CRX (Stock) - Sold
94 Civic EX - Totalled
92 Prelude Si - Blown Motor
96 Chevy S10 (3inch lift kit, tinted windows, sound system, sunroof, ballin!) - Sold
96 Ford Explorer A.K.A: Chopsmobile (If you drive it you will know why I call it the Chopsmobile) - Blown Tranny
91 Honda Accord (Stock) - DD
99 Hyundai Elantra - Sold
99 Ford Taurus - doin it...
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