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H23A1 ITB's

 
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Old 10-01-2010, 01:04 AM
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H23A1 ITB's

anyone know where to find em or a link to a write up on how to make them.
since im going for an all motor DD build these seem to be the best choice for performance. would H22 ITB's fit on my h23? i know i gotta get it tuned blah blah blah i just need the parts and i can handle it from there im sure(not even getting installed until next year when motor is rebuilt) im just piecing together the parts for the build

btw goal is 200 WHP 180..ish WTQ N/A all motor no spray!!!
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Old 10-01-2010, 02:09 AM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

First thing on your list should be a H22A swap.
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Old 10-01-2010, 01:23 PM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

no h22a ITB will not fit.
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Old 10-02-2010, 12:08 AM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

i don't want to do an h22 build its been done countless times....boring
id like to push the limits of a well built high strung H23 with no vtec just to show it can be done. im tired of most people bashing this engine and I am personally interested in seeing what i can make it do. VTEC is great and all don't get me wrong i know it would be easier
but VTEC is not the only way to make good power on a N/A honda motor
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Old 10-02-2010, 03:59 AM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

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Originally Posted by ranger11x View Post
i don't want to do an h22 build its been done countless times....boring
id like to push the limits of a well built high strung H23 with no vtec just to show it can be done. im tired of most people bashing this engine and I am personally interested in seeing what i can make it do. VTEC is great and all don't get me wrong i know it would be easier
but VTEC is not the only way to make good power on a N/A honda motor
GOOD power can be made by ANY engine. The only thing that would be different from a 200whp H23 vs a 200whp H22, would be that you probably put close to double the amount of money into the H23. The H23 has VERY limited aftermarket support.
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Old 10-02-2010, 10:42 AM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

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Originally Posted by 94_lude_vtec View Post
GOOD power can be made by ANY engine. The only thing that would be different from a 200whp H23 vs a 200whp H22, would be that you probably put close to double the amount of money into the H23. The H23 has VERY limited aftermarket support.
this is not a correct statement .. ive built an h23 and an h22 for my own cars in the past . i made damn near identical power on both motors with about the same mods ( for the same money spent ) . the big diff i noticed is the 23 was a better daily driver ( much wider tq band less shifting ) they both got around the same gas mileage and the fact that your on the more aggressive lob all the time with the 23 made it sound mean as hell . the 23 with lsd i could roll on in second and break the tires loose with no clutch the 22 will the same lsd tranny you had to bang second hard to get it to spin as hard . the tq band of the 23 is deff broader . i now have an h23 vtec and its the best of both worlds . no my 23vtec is not built ( yet ) but ill let everyone know how this goes
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Old 10-02-2010, 04:16 PM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

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Originally Posted by element600rr View Post
this is not a correct statement .. ive built an h23 and an h22 for my own cars in the past . i made damn near identical power on both motors with about the same mods ( for the same money spent ) . the big diff i noticed is the 23 was a better daily driver ( much wider tq band less shifting ) they both got around the same gas mileage and the fact that your on the more aggressive lob all the time with the 23 made it sound mean as hell . the 23 with lsd i could roll on in second and break the tires loose with no clutch the 22 will the same lsd tranny you had to bang second hard to get it to spin as hard . the tq band of the 23 is deff broader . i now have an h23 vtec and its the best of both worlds . no my 23vtec is not built ( yet ) but ill let everyone know how this goes
Ohh really? Proof of said builds? Prove me wrong. Don't just say it's wrong.
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Old 10-02-2010, 10:39 PM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

Hmm.

/takes cover
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Old 10-03-2010, 12:13 AM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

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Originally Posted by 94_lude_vtec View Post
Ohh really? Proof of said builds? Prove me wrong. Don't just say it's wrong.
I'd like to see it as well, not doubting you just looking for more ideas and proof that this really can be done
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Old 10-03-2010, 09:43 AM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

i dont have dyno charts from 5 years ago . but i build performance cars for a living not to mention what reason would i have for lying ( just to contradict someone on a forum ) . i can however show you my last build a 704 whp sti that i have proof of ( pick up last months supers street and check out the ride of the month yeah thats my build ) or wait till jan issue and check out the cover car on dsport ( yeah its gonna be there too ) . the main diff is the head and the fact its not vtec the 2.3 has a cam that is not quite as aggressive on the top end . guess what cams and a little valve work can fix that easy . the flow of the 23 is slightly less yes but if your doing valves and porting it . guess what your right on par with the 22 hp wise . the fact that the 2.3 has a better tq band ( stroked crank same bore ) is a fact look at any dyno chart of a 2.3 compared to a 2.2 the tq curve starts at a lower rpm and is without a doubt a better daily driver motor if you dont want to have to down shift to get up every little hill ..

yes h23 parts are a little harder to come buy ill give you that but there out there and the prices are in the same range . you ask me for proof well show me proof your right .. ive owned 4 diff prelude with multiply diff set ups and builds , all motor ,nitrous and turbo how about you ? not to be a smart ass but this is what i do for a living ..

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Old 10-03-2010, 11:36 AM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's



I hope this stays civil...
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Old 10-03-2010, 11:45 AM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

i am by no means trying to be rude or uncivil . i have owned and speak from personal knowledge . sucks i dont have dyno graphs anymore just been a long time .. the h23 just never got the respect it deserved lol ..
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Old 10-03-2010, 02:53 PM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

woahhh man no disrespect was ment in any way i just wanted some ideas and to see if im really just beating a dead horse here or going into slightly less explored waters

and if thats your sti that i saw last month in SS

holy cow!!!!!!!
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Old 10-03-2010, 03:49 PM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

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Originally Posted by ranger11x View Post
woahhh man no disrespect was ment in any way i just wanted some ideas and to see if im really just beating a dead horse here or going into slightly less explored waters

and if thats your sti that i saw last month in SS

holy cow!!!!!!!
not my car but i built it for a friend of mine . i cant lay claim to the motor ( its a cosworth ) but it is my turbo kit ( custom built set up entirely ) and i did all the suspension , electronic work and fuel system in that car . i take it out all the time and did all the work so it kinda is mine lol . not really but they guy i built it for is a really good friend of mine and whenever its at the track im driving it ..

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Old 10-03-2010, 04:47 PM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

Quote:
Originally Posted by element600rr View Post
i dont have dyno charts from 5 years ago . but i build performance cars for a living not to mention what reason would i have for lying ( just to contradict someone on a forum ) . i can however show you my last build a 704 whp sti that i have proof of ( pick up last months supers street and check out the ride of the month yeah thats my build ) or wait till jan issue and check out the cover car on dsport ( yeah its gonna be there too ) . the main diff is the head and the fact its not vtec the 2.3 has a cam that is not quite as aggressive on the top end . guess what cams and a little valve work can fix that easy . the flow of the 23 is slightly less yes but if your doing valves and porting it . guess what your right on par with the 22 hp wise . the fact that the 2.3 has a better tq band ( stroked crank same bore ) is a fact look at any dyno chart of a 2.3 compared to a 2.2 the tq curve starts at a lower rpm and is without a doubt a better daily driver motor if you dont want to have to down shift to get up every little hill ..

yes h23 parts are a little harder to come buy ill give you that but there out there and the prices are in the same range . you ask me for proof well show me proof your right .. ive owned 4 diff prelude with multiply diff set ups and builds , all motor ,nitrous and turbo how about you ? not to be a smart ass but this is what i do for a living ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by element600rr View Post
i am by no means trying to be rude or uncivil . i have owned and speak from personal knowledge . sucks i dont have dyno graphs anymore just been a long time .. the h23 just never got the respect it deserved lol ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by element600rr View Post
not my car but i built it for a friend of mine . i cant lay claim to the motor ( its a cosworth ) but it is my turbo kit ( custom built set up entirely ) and i did all the suspension , electronic work and fuel system in that car . i take it out all the time and did all the work so it kinda is mine lol . not really but they guy i built it for is a really good friend of mine and whenever its at the track im driving it ..
Okay, first off, I am not doubting you with your experience, I just simply wanted proof of what you said (which you have still yet to do). Second, I'm not bashing on the H23, I simply said it would not be cost effective to build one N/A. And finally, I didn't want to come in here and here the "I did this" "I built this" BS. I don't care what you have done, not that I'm doubting it, but I just wanted to know what parts you used in your H23 builds. Because as far as I know, there is no cost effective aftermarket support for this motor.

Now that you and everyone else knows what I am asking for specifically, maybe we can get an answer? (with proof, not just your words)
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Old 10-03-2010, 05:08 PM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

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Originally Posted by 94_lude_vtec View Post
Okay, first off, I am not doubting you with your experience, I just simply wanted proof of what you said (which you have still yet to do). Second, I'm not bashing on the H23, I simply said it would not be cost effective to build one N/A. And finally, I didn't want to come in here and here the "I did this" "I built this" BS. I don't care what you have done, not that I'm doubting it, but I just wanted to know what parts you used in your H23 builds. Because as far as I know, there is no cost effective aftermarket support for this motor.

Now that you and everyone else knows what I am asking for specifically, maybe we can get an answer? (with proof, not just your words)

the h23 was comp cams frerra valvetrain stock size valves springs and retainers a stock intake ported out with the butterflies removed port matched to the head a set of je 11.0 to 1 pistons dc header port matched to the head no cat and thermal race exhaust put down through a act streetlight flywheel rps clutch and an lsd trans using nothing more than an afc to tune rich spots out ..

the h22 stock valves with frerra springs and retainers intake ported with the butterflies removed port matched to the head greddy header matched no cat and thermal exhaust put power down through the same flywheel clutch and trans .. so the 22 had stock cams the 23 did not . tuned with the same afc the peak numbers were very close but the 23 had a wider tq curve . the only diff in money spent from one to the next was the 2 3 had cams the 2 2 didnt .. on our dyna pack ( that dose tend to read a little on the high side ) the 22 read 212 whp and the 23 read 202 but the 23 revved out to 7200 and the 22 revved to 8000 the 23 was still climbing up to rev limit the 22 was not .

i know your gonna say put cams in the 22 and see the diff but that still not gonna make up the diff in the tq delivery its just not there on the 22 .

i sold my 93 almost 4 years ago i have no idea where the charts are from over 5 years ago . all im saying is i can speak from my own knowledge .. i have prior knowledge from personal exp ... do you ??? i know u dont car i built this i did this bs but this proves that i know what im doing when i comes to building cars where are your builds at ??? im talking your builds ( personally yourself_) not one you paid someone to put together ... by the way that someone would be me ...
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Old 10-03-2010, 05:19 PM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

so all in all the 23 cost me a set of 700 dollar cams more
made a few less hp ( with a higher redline would have been right on par )
the 23 made tq from a lower rev and was a better motor ( in my opinion to dd )
just dont like how people say 2 3 is a waste its not . i have a 2.2 on a stand ( plopped in a 2.3 3 weeks after i bought my new prelude) wanna buy a 2.2 ? no replacement for displacement .. all in all 700 aint **** money wise with a build . gonna cost him more to buy a 2.2 just to start with .. so whats more cost effective and what has a wide tq band ??

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Old 10-03-2010, 05:51 PM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

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Originally Posted by element600rr View Post
the h23: a set of je 11.0 to 1 pistons

the only diff in money spent from one to the next was the 2 3 had cams the 2 2 didnt
Ohh really? Because I hope you know you can't just drop forged pistons into an h23.....

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Originally Posted by element600rr View Post
i know your gonna say put cams in the 22 and see the diff but that still not gonna make up the diff in the tq delivery its just not there on the 22 .
And yes, cams would make a difference. Not an extreme difference, but a difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by element600rr View Post
i sold my 93 almost 4 years ago i have no idea where the charts are from over 5 years ago . all im saying is i can speak from my own knowledge .. i have prior knowledge from personal exp ... do you ??? i know u dont car i built this i did this bs but this proves that i know what im doing when i comes to building cars where are your builds at ??? im talking your builds ( personally yourself_) not one you paid someone to put together ... by the way that someone would be me ...
I personally have never FULLY built an H series, YET. I've done head work, but no bottom end working. I have, however, built numerous B series and I am currently working on my first D series.
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Old 10-03-2010, 05:57 PM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

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Originally Posted by element600rr View Post
so all in all the 23 cost me a set of 700 dollar cams more
made a few less hp ( with a higher redline would have been right on par )
the 23 made tq from a lower rev and was a better motor ( in my opinion to dd )
See my last response.

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Originally Posted by element600rr View Post
just dont like how people say 2 3 is a waste its not .
Never said it was.

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Originally Posted by element600rr View Post
i have a 2.2 on a stand ( plopped in a 2.3 3 weeks after i bought my new prelude) wanna buy a 2.2 ? no replacement for displacement .. all in all 700 aint **** money wise with a build . gonna cost him more to buy a 2.2 just to start with .. so whats more cost effective and what has a wide tq band ??
And of course its going to have a wider TQ curve. It has .1 liter more AND higher crank stroke.


We are talking cost efficiency.
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Old 10-03-2010, 06:10 PM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

he already owns a 2 3 . its gonna be cheaper to keep it
the price of parts is the same 22 to 23 . i mean if were talking 10 dollars here and there maybe a minimal diff but its not like 23 parts are double the money ..
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Old 10-03-2010, 06:26 PM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

oh and as far as sleeves no i didnt have sleeves in the 23 ( just saw ur previous post ) . i know thats not the right way ( now ) despite what ive been told the motor was in the car for about 12k and i never had a problem ... by the way the piston skirts were coated dunno if that had anything to do with it lasting ... sold that motor and never heard from the guy again so dunno how it held up in the long haul .. if he wanted he could go with nippon pistons instead of forged thats what i did on the 22 ( after i learned about the sleeve issues )
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Old 10-03-2010, 06:29 PM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

I personally have never FULLY built an H series, YET. I've done head work, but no bottom end working. I have, however, built numerous B series and I am currently working on my first D series. [/QUOTE]

ds are fun a buddy of mine has a 95 4door 1.6 no vtec turbo we goofed off on the weekends and put together made 293 .. fun car and the look on peps faces is priceless when you pop the hood ...
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Old 10-03-2010, 06:31 PM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

a lot of guys do N/A builds and use h23 bottom end w/ the h22 head......

I'm certain there is cam and valvetrain support for the h23 and it cannot be too terribly different in cost from the h22 parts.

there is NO possible way that it cost twice as much to build an h23 w/ the same amount of power as an h22.
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Old 10-03-2010, 07:30 PM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

ok now that this is all settled...........

HOW BOUT THEM ITB's
have they been made?
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Old 10-03-2010, 08:33 PM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

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no h22a ITB will not fit.
OP: you can take this as fact.

I don't know of any h23 ITB's, you'll most likely have to go custom.
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Old 10-03-2010, 10:30 PM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

Don't a lot of people use the ITB's off the CBR's?
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Old 10-03-2010, 10:38 PM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

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Don't a lot of people use the ITB's off the CBR's?
i actually could see this working the itbs on the 1000rr are prolly just about the right size . if you used the flange and injector bosses from a stock mani prolly wouldnt be to hard to accomplish ..

i actually have an extra h23 manifold if you need one to play with let me know
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Old 10-03-2010, 10:45 PM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

I have a couple extra manifolds sitting around too. I know for a FACT I have seen people make custom ITB setups with parts from our manifolds and CBR ITB's.
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Old 10-03-2010, 10:53 PM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

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I have a couple extra manifolds sitting around too. I know for a FACT I have seen people make custom ITB setups with parts from our manifolds and CBR ITB's.
guess what im gonna pick up a set of ... lol ... cant be to hard to make buddy of mine dose cnc work i smell a new pep project ..
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Old 10-03-2010, 10:58 PM
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Re: H23A1 ITB's

Well since I introduced you to the idea, I get an ITB setup for free right?
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