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Primary and Secondary Butterflies..

 
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Old 08-16-2010, 09:00 AM
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Primary and Secondary Butterflies..

On an H22A1, at what points in the RPM band do the primary and secondary butterflies engage?
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Old 08-16-2010, 10:14 PM
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Re: Primary and Secondary Butterflies..

there's only one set of butterflies, and they're in the intake manifold (the IAB's). unless your talking about the single butterfly in the resonator of the stock air intake?? which i highly doubt


but the IAB's open at 4800 on h23's, 4600 on h22's
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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 08-16-2010, 10:28 PM
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Re: Primary and Secondary Butterflies..

The question itself stems from my wanting to tune and modify where in the RPM range Vtec kicks in. I found a P28 that's getting chipped and basemapped on Crome, but until now I've never really payed attention to all the jargon and detail that needs to go into it. I remember with my buddy's GSR his tune eliminated one of the sets of butterflies, or matched the Vtec transition with the RMP the butterflies opened, something to that effect.

Obviously I don't completely know what I'm talking about, I'm wracking my memory to hopefully serve me in explaining what info I'm lookin for and what I hope to achieve. I remember hearing someone say that the secondary set of butterflies in the IM open in the 4K RPM range but we only feel the primaries open at the 5.5K mark, so technically we're in Vtec from when the first set opens up. Does that make any sense? Or, have I retained completely wrong and stupid information?
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Old 08-16-2010, 10:42 PM
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Re: Primary and Secondary Butterflies..

VTEC has nothing to do with when the IAB's open. It is the point at which the VTEC oil pressure switch activates, locking all the lobes on the cam together. I know how it works, but I sound like a retard trying to explain it, so just search for the "How VTEC works" video. lol
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Old 08-16-2010, 10:42 PM
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Re: Primary and Secondary Butterflies..

here's a test... go drive your car, see if you can notice them open at 46-4800. i never really noticed them on my old h23, but i honestly never really paid attention to them.



thenn, unplug the vac line on the spring-actuated diaphragm thats on the IAB plate, which leaves the IAB's open 24/7. you'll prolly loose a tiny amount of tq in the low-range.


i honestly NEVER noticed my IAB's, other ppl do tho.
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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 08-16-2010, 10:45 PM
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Re: Primary and Secondary Butterflies..

Quote:
here's a test... go drive your car, see if you can notice them open at 46-4800. i never really noticed them on my old h23, but i honestly never really paid attention to them.
They were very noticeable on my car, although I had an H22, not an H23. It feels like 2 VTECS yo! Double the VTAK, double the fun.
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Old 08-16-2010, 10:48 PM
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Re: Primary and Secondary Butterflies..

vtaaakkkkk VEEETAAAAKKKKKK BOOOOTSSSS NAAAWWWSSSS!!!!!!!!:b urnout:
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2000 Acura TL; DD
2005 Stage2.5+ Subaru WRB STi : RzKar!
Ivey Tuned - Advan - Cobb - Rallispec - CP - Perrin - ACT - KillerB - Carillo - TurboXS - Defi - Innovate - Walbro - DeatschWerks - Feal - H&R - Alpine - Infiniti - Curt

2001 Kawasaki STX1100 D.I. - Sold!
2007 Sea-Doo RXT 215; ET 127 +3 S/C impeller, DIY 3" intake, DIY resonator delete/free flow exhaust, DIY oil catch can, Rule 500gph bilge pump


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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 08-16-2010, 11:17 PM
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Re: Primary and Secondary Butterflies..

Lol yes I can feel a small pickup right around the 4.5K range if I'm steadily on the gas 60-70% but not more than that.


I thought the butterflies open the manifold to allow more air in? The more I think about it, I think what I'm going for in the tune is to match Vtec pop with the opening of the butterflies so that instead of getting a nice little *poof* at 4.6K and a *pop* at 5.5K when Vtec kicks in, I'll be getting a *POOOOOOOFPP!* at 4.6K with a little spooge mixed in.
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Old 08-16-2010, 11:36 PM
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Re: Primary and Secondary Butterflies..

Quote:
I thought the butterflies open the manifold to allow more air in?
They do. You don't want the IAB's open at lower RPMS, because it hurts the velocity of the incoming air, thus reducing torque. If the IAB's were closed all the time, you'd still have your low-end grunt, but you'd be choking up top. Thus...IAB's were invented, and now you get the best of both worlds! Finding the optimal VTEC engagement point is relatively simple when tuning, but I have no idea how you'd go about finding the optimal IAB opening point. You might want to ask Blake (98VTEC) or Bustr (Bustr).
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Old 08-16-2010, 11:59 PM
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Re: Primary and Secondary Butterflies..

Yeah we'll be messing with the settings for awhile. When I've found the best setup for what I'm runnin and when I finally make a Member's Ride page, I'll just throw it on there along with references to everything else I've had troubles and excitement with.

I think the 4600 RPM is the answer I was looking for. Certainly do appreciate it :)
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Old 08-17-2010, 11:08 AM
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Re: Primary and Secondary Butterflies..

well i am curious to know if how i can notice mine kick in. Because when my vtec kicks in at about 4500 rpm my car goes transforms from fast into a freaking race car lol it gets so loud and stuffs you back in ur seat. so would that mean mine are engauging properly. becauase when vtec kicks in there is a huge noticeable difference in power.
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Old 08-17-2010, 12:15 PM
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Re: Primary and Secondary Butterflies..

Here is how VTEC works and it has nothing to do with the IAB's:

Tutorial Pictures :: How VTEC Works video by BrickDiver - Photobucket
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Old 08-18-2010, 02:07 PM
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Re: Primary and Secondary Butterflies..

Are the IAB's electronically or mechanically controlled?
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Old 08-18-2010, 06:28 PM
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Re: Primary and Secondary Butterflies..

mechanically // vacuum controlled
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Old 08-18-2010, 06:41 PM
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Re: Primary and Secondary Butterflies..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
Lol yes I can feel a small pickup right around the 4.5K range if I'm steadily on the gas 60-70% but not more than that.


I thought the butterflies open the manifold to allow more air in? The more I think about it, I think what I'm going for in the tune is to match Vtec pop with the opening of the butterflies so that instead of getting a nice little *poof* at 4.6K and a *pop* at 5.5K when Vtec kicks in, I'll be getting a *POOOOOOOFPP!* at 4.6K with a little spooge mixed in.

4.6 is to low for vtec . in my experiance with tunning and playing with vtec engagement points on a dyna pack anything below 5k actually cost you hp . my built na h22 had the whole butterfly set up removed . you can take the top half and the bottom half port them out so there are no tunnels ( just one big opening ) in them and bolt them together without the butterflys . this is how my na h22 was set up . i made 212 whp with that set up . but i can promise you anything below 5k as far as vtec goes is pointless actually a step backwards ( if you like hp ) lol
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