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Ashpalt Oval Track Racing

 
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Old 08-01-2010, 07:24 PM
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Ashpalt Oval Track Racing

New to the forum here and am looking for some suspension help on my 94 prelude. It has a stock suspension and 215 prime wells on 14 inch rims (only allowed 13"/14" rims; limited as to what we are allowed modify)

I race in a $1000 claimer class so buying high dollar shocks and springs are kind of out of the question..

I race on a 1/3 mile oval asphalt track.

The car is really tall and I know lowering it would help alot. Debated chopping or heating springs, but dont really wanna mess the springs or handling up..

Does anyone have any input on the best way to lower the car? Or any advice to setting it up better?

Companies, front height, back height, tire pressures..?

Im the only honda that races here so Im kind of on my own for tuning and am just curious if I can make it better than what I got.

Thanks for any and all help.

Cody
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Old 08-01-2010, 07:31 PM
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Re: Ashpalt Oval Track Racing

Curious to what the stock spring rates are and my options for running different springs on the 4 corners..
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Old 08-01-2010, 07:55 PM
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Re: Ashpalt Oval Track Racing

tire stagger!!!!...tall right front and real small left rear tire...and add about fifty to seventy five pounds of weight behind the drivers seat or on the left side of the trunk....its better to have your weight in front of the left rear axle.......
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Old 08-01-2010, 07:59 PM
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Re: Ashpalt Oval Track Racing

Honestly, it's not all that tall -- I used to think so until started parking a Miata next to it. Severely lowered Preludes often run into problems with suspension travel, so you don't want to take it down too much.

Running different springs on all corners is an intriguing idea, but I don't know anyone who's tried it...there are a couple of oval track racers posting here, so maybe someone will pipe up. I'd try and find some Koni Sport (yellow) shocks on eBay...they're rebound adjustable, so you'll stiffen up the car a little (for high frequency motions, at least), and you can change all the settings independently, which helps a little with turn-in. The lower spring perch is also adjustable -- it's a metal plate that slots into one of a couple positions on the shock body. That'll lower you a bit. Konis are rebuildable, too, so if you get a knackered set, you can get them refuribished. If you can find a set of moderate springs -- Neuspeed Sport springs or something similiar -- to pair up with the shocks, it's a pretty good setup. I wouldn't cut 'em -- you never know what you'll do taking the heat treating out.

Preludes are very responsive to air pressure adjustments. On track, I ran my 4th gen at about 45 psi up front, and 35 psi in the back -- it would oversteer readily by lifting off the throttle a bit. You just have to be careful about hanging the back out too far, since the only way to bring it back is to straighten it out, which can be bad in traffic or near the wall!
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Old 08-01-2010, 10:10 PM
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Re: Ashpalt Oval Track Racing

We are required to run the same size tires all the way around..

Jamie, regarding tire pressures:
My setup:
LF:16 RF: 35
LR:7 RR:30

Up until recently, the setup has worked well for me. The car was on rails inside and on the outside lane.. Lately, I have been real loose and its probably due to track changes ( rain, sun, and sticky groove "enhancer") but I have been wanting to mess around with the setup, although limited by the stock components.

People have been telling me to run high pressure in rear then in the fronts.. not sure about it, could always try, but I don't have much faith in that theory.

They have also put grease fittings in the rear shocks and fill it up to stiffen the rear up and reduce the body roll in the corners.. It is what has got me thinking about putting some big heavy springs in the right side. Found some NEUSPEED shocks, it will drop 2.25" in front and 2" in the back.

Any asphalt guys have tire preferences. I have been having real good luck with prime wells as well as most of the guys at our track. 1 or 2 guys run Yokohama's.. Any other standouts?
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Old 08-01-2010, 10:22 PM
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Re: Ashpalt Oval Track Racing

NEUSPEED springs I meant to type, not shocks.
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Old 08-02-2010, 01:21 AM
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Re: Ashpalt Oval Track Racing

Those sound like neuspeed race springs... they will be stiff, but sounds like an option for you. I am running on neuspeed sports (1.7"F, 1.5"R) for going on 3 years and I like them a lot (coupled with kyb agxes and poly bushings). Plenty stiff for me as a daily driver.

I don't have much advice, but here is some great info on spring rates...

Spring Rate Reference - Honda Prelude Forum - Prelude Online.com

tire/suspension reviews:

Tire Review Thread

Suspension setups

Last edited by mr_y82; 08-02-2010 at 01:28 AM.
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Old 08-02-2010, 03:34 PM
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Re: Ashpalt Oval Track Racing

600 dollar coilovers, that ive heard very good things about and that im planning on getting in the very near future...

FUNCTION & FORM TYPE 1 HEIGHT ADJUSTABLE COILOVERS - 92-01 PRELUDE :: PRELUDE :: HONDA :: COILOVERS :: SUSPENSION :: weksos industries
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Old 08-02-2010, 09:48 PM
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Re: Ashpalt Oval Track Racing

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Originally Posted by SKOG28 View Post
Jamie, regarding tire pressures:
My setup:
LF:16 RF: 35
LR:7 RR:30
Holy $%^&*! I'd run 25 psi in the back for autocross, and people would tell me I was on the rim in the corners...Primewells must have extra stiff sidewalls!

Wrt front/rear pressure ratios -- high/low is the right way to go. A high/higher mix does work in quite a few FWD cars -- seems to work especially especially well for VWs -- but it just made the Prelude understeer.
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Old 08-02-2010, 11:22 PM
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Re: Ashpalt Oval Track Racing

Yeah.. I only gotta turn left so I could run with a flat tire on the left rear haha
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Old 08-15-2010, 04:53 PM
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Re: Ashpalt Oval Track Racing

i .dont no about asphalt but on dirt i run 25 in left front 18 in left rear and it helps. what about stagger can u or is it leagil?
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Old 08-22-2010, 08:27 PM
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Re: Ashpalt Oval Track Racing

I'm running a 4th gen on a 1/4 mile paved oval in Agassiz BC. The spring chop experiment I wouldn't recommend. I'm racing in hornet class, but we don't do claimer rules so we're willing to spend some cash. The best response is indeed from tire pressures. The four wheel steering is locked off as it always tries to counter-adjust when I'm throwing it into a corner. The left sway bar is disconnected at the wheel and that keeps all four paws on the ground on the left hand circuit in the corners. left rear 22 lbs, left front 24, right rear 26 right front 28-35 depending on how hot the day is. Some guys run that right front as high as 40 plus but that doesn't work for me, it pushes too much. Half worn tires with a treadwear rating of 300 or better if you can get them. 65/205 series tires on 15 inch rims put me right at the rev limiter on this track, perfectly redlining before the corners. Staggering the tires would be nice but I'm not allowed to. Right rear is cambered up to an inch and a half and 3/4 at the right front wheel. Both rear tires are toed the same way, in on the left and out on the right. I'm drastic on that and the car 'crabs' but that keeps my rear end on rails in the corners. (This is of course for a left hand oval circuit). Replacement of all the shock bushings will drastically improve things too, as will a lowered hip point, my eyes are level with the top of the steering wheel set low and my ass is almost on the floor. New shocks on the outside (hard), worn shocks on the inside(soft) appeared to work well. (These are shoestring budget, practical mods) sidebar: use only new radiators if you can, plastic is ok but brittle. Sustained redlining these cars is fine if your rad has good flow, a 10 year old one from the wrecker (still good) is ok for the street, no good for your engine at the track. Use zap straps with a bit of play instead of the rad mounts which will snap off during contact. The air-cleaner flow is important for the same reason as the rad flow. Cheap ones don't filter out f/all and it sucks that right into your engine when some clown goes into the dirt in front of you, and an old choked up one will add to your overheating issues. Don't mean to sound preachy, just sharing knowledge. Cheers and good luck fellow racers. http://the-hornets-nest.xanga.com/

Last edited by Hornet56; 08-23-2010 at 06:48 PM.
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Old 08-22-2010, 11:44 PM
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Re: Ashpalt Oval Track Racing

Outstanding! Great race photos, too.
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Old 08-23-2010, 05:48 PM
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Re: Ashpalt Oval Track Racing

hey hornet56 how did you get that much camber out of your right front and right rear wheels??? im trying to do that on my 93 vtec.
thanks
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:02 PM
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Re: Ashpalt Oval Track Racing

Quote:
Originally Posted by circletrackprelude View Post
hey hornet56 how did you get that much camber out of your right front and right rear wheels??? im trying to do that on my 93 vtec.
thanks
My 92 has 4 wheel electronic steering (or had, see last post) There is a large eccentric nut on your rear wheels' control arms, one each side, you can't miss it, its an 18mil I think. It's commonly frozen so you may have to replace it. I was teched for that and had to send for the real bolt from Honda! That winds the camber in and out. I think the ones without e4ws have a similar adjust but it might not be as drastic. For the front, I'll send you a private message. *cough* oh, and I was wrong about the seventy series tires, I'm 15 inch rims on 65 series, The seventies change the gearing for this track and the handling is way better on the smaller tire.

Last edited by Hornet56; 08-23-2010 at 06:39 PM.
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