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fixin up my 4th gen

 
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Old 07-16-2010, 11:13 AM
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fixin up my 4th gen

alright. so im lookin for ways to fix up my h23. just some little things to give it more power. any suggestions? i already have iceman cold air intake and hedman chikara steel headers.
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Old 07-16-2010, 12:39 PM
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Re: fixin up my 4th gen

Well John, your basic bolt ons will hardly add anything as far as hp goes. Your butt dyno will pick it up, but on an actual dyno with your basic bolt ons I wouldn't expect to see gains larger than 7hp.

For real HP you have to spend real money. An intake can add a small amount of throttle respose, but you don't see that on a dyno. Honestly changing your intake just changes the fun sucky sound IMO.

All of your power gains from your exhaust are going to come from your header. The header is the most important part. But a cheap header isn't going to "unlock" any extra power simply because they weren't engineered to. They are just supposed to look pretty for the time being. If you want a real header then check this out:

F-series and F2B/F2D : Bisimoto Engineering, Where Efficiency Meets Technological Perfection!

The reason I am showing you ones for the F series motors is because you have an H23, which has the same bolt pattern on the intake and exhaust manifolds as the F series motors. I would show you a header specially made for your H23, but Bisimoto only makes a header for the H22 and F series engines.

That is a Bisimoto header, the best of the best, honestly you don't see that much of a gain from a header from DC or Chikara or Ractive or Megan or whatever, if anything you may actually lose power. But once you start getting into header's that cost a little more than $600, THAT is where you will start seeing power gains. Brands like Mugen, Hytech, and Bisimoto, as well as other JDM Racing brands, offer great gains.

The next important thing in your exhaust setup will be your catalytic converter. Your stock one is junk, cut it off and take it to Slesnick's and get your $80 out of that POS. What you want is a hi-flow catalytic converter. For this I suggest looking to Carsound. I personally don't have a part number or link for this because when I bought my car it came with the Hi flow Cat already on it, but I'm sure you can use the internet to your advantage and do some research and find the Cat you need.

The next portion of your exhaust will be your Catback, which is everything it says it is. It is all the piping from the catalytic converter, back. There really isn't much to look for here. Mandrel bent tubing that is the same diameter as the rest of your exhaust and you are good to go.

Finally, we are at the part that everyone loves, which is the Muffler, or Axleback. This is where the majority of your exhaust tone is going to come from. You can choose a chambered or canister muffler or a twin loop or there are loads of different options here. From what I have seen a Mugen Twin loop adds the most gains, and sounds the best, but IDEFK if they make those for preludes Just make sure the inlet is the same diameter as the rest of your exhaust and you will be fine.

The most important thing with an exhaust is DO NOT BOTTLENECK. Bottlenecking is when you go from a larger diameter pipe, to a smaller diameter pipe, IT KILLS EXHAUST FLOW. You will lose madd power by doing this. From the collector on your header to the inlet on your exhaust should all be the same diameter. For your basic bolt ons I would suggest staying with a 2.5" exhaust. If you go into building a real NA machine, move on up to 3", same thing with going into the FI. But if you are just going to go into your bolt ons and be done, then stick with a 2.5"

Also, STICK TO NAME BRANDS. They are popular for a reason, because their products are good. You get what you pay for, and you gotta pay to play. Don't spend $150.00 on a header and expect madd gains, because honestly you will be lucky to get any gains. But with an intake, this isn't the case, because all of the piping is the same, some is carb legal, others aren't. But here in the great state of Ohio (well in our area anyways) we don't have emissions and **** to worry about, so just get some cheap ass ebay piping and a K&N filter and call it a day. There is no difference in the piping, except for the diameter. Personally, I have been thinking about fabbing something like this up for my 'Lude, I used to have one for my teggy:

IMPROVED: DIY "Icebox" style CAI - Team Integra

All the gains of the Mugen Intake with none of the cost.

Continuing off of what I said in the beginning, you aren't really going to see anything from your bolt ons. They add power that your butt dyno will pick up on, but not much actual power. Personally, I suggest getting a chipped ECU, and having it basemapped for your H23. Then take it down to Honda Bob, since we are so close to Ashtabula (where he resides). And have him tune you to unleash more power. I have seen up to 10% gains on NA cars just from a tune, and up to 30% gains on FI cars. For a chipped ECU, I would go here:

Phearable.net - Electronic Fuel Injection Tuning Solutions - Hondata, Neptune, Crome, Uberdata, Ectune, AEM, Honda Tuning, Widebands, Fuel Pumps, Intercoolers, Turbos, LS/VTEC, ECU Chipping, Chipped Ecus, P28

But this leads me to my last point. If you want real power, you are going to have to get into Forced Induction. There is no doubt about it, the NA (naturally aspirated) path is just too hard to make good power for a decent price. You would need to entirely re-design your engine and re-engineer everything, and it is just not in anyone's budget. But you can't cheap out on FI either, but it is just far easier to make power going FI than it is going NA.

But once again, the most important part of making power or modifying an engine is to GET A TUNE. YOUR ENGINE WASN'T MADE TO RUN WITH THESE AFTERMARKET PARTS, IT NEEDS TO BE TUNED FOR THEM SO IT CAN USE THEM EFFECTIVELY TO MAKE POWER. Sorry for shouting but that NEEDS to stand out. If you go for boost, you NEED A TUNE. None of this FMU trash. Get it chipped, get it tuned. /endstory

I know I'm leaving a lot out, but I figured this would be a good platform to build off of. Do your research, there is a ton to learn, this is your car, build it your way, but all I ask is you don't lego build. Decide what kind of power you want the car to have and then pick parts that compliment this kind of power, if you want low end, get parts that add to low end, if you want high end, pick parts that will help carry power to the upper reaches of your Powerband. DO NOT LEGO BUILD. Don't pick parts just because they are shiny or cheap or whatever. Do your research and make sure the parts you are buying are going to work for your build, and add power where you want it and how you want it.

But I'm done ranting and rambling for now. You got my number if you need any questions
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Old 07-16-2010, 01:14 PM
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Re: fixin up my 4th gen

Something I didn't mention above that I feel I should is that your suspension is also a very important part to making your car faster. In a corner or from a dig, the stiffer your suspension the tighter the car will feel and the better it will be on its feet. I personally love a stiff suspension, even if you feel the bumps a lot more. With a stiff suspension you can lower the car much lower and decrease shock travel, but still not bottom out because the suspension is so stiff. Plus, nothing handles better than a car with a nice stiff suspension. I personally like to ride 10k up front and 12k in the rear, so I can get a little oversteer going on in AutoX, but spring rates are up to you and how much you can tolerate.
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Old 07-16-2010, 03:45 PM
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Icon14 Re: fixin up my 4th gen

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrickDiver View Post
Well John, your basic bolt ons will hardly add anything as far as hp goes. Your butt dyno will pick it up, but on an actual dyno with your basic bolt ons I wouldn't expect to see gains larger than 7hp.

For real HP you have to spend real money. An intake can add a small amount of throttle respose, but you don't see that on a dyno. Honestly changing your intake just changes the fun sucky sound IMO.

All of your power gains from your exhaust are going to come from your header. The header is the most important part. But a cheap header isn't going to "unlock" any extra power simply because they weren't engineered to. They are just supposed to look pretty for the time being. If you want a real header then check this out:

F-series and F2B/F2D : Bisimoto Engineering, Where Efficiency Meets Technological Perfection!

The reason I am showing you ones for the F series motors is because you have an H23, which has the same bolt pattern on the intake and exhaust manifolds as the F series motors. I would show you a header specially made for your H23, but Bisimoto only makes a header for the H22 and F series engines.

That is a Bisimoto header, the best of the best, honestly you don't see that much of a gain from a header from DC or Chikara or Ractive or Megan or whatever, if anything you may actually lose power. But once you start getting into header's that cost a little more than $600, THAT is where you will start seeing power gains. Brands like Mugen, Hytech, and Bisimoto, as well as other JDM Racing brands, offer great gains.

The next important thing in your exhaust setup will be your catalytic converter. Your stock one is junk, cut it off and take it to Slesnick's and get your $80 out of that POS. What you want is a hi-flow catalytic converter. For this I suggest looking to Carsound. I personally don't have a part number or link for this because when I bought my car it came with the Hi flow Cat already on it, but I'm sure you can use the internet to your advantage and do some research and find the Cat you need.

The next portion of your exhaust will be your Catback, which is everything it says it is. It is all the piping from the catalytic converter, back. There really isn't much to look for here. Mandrel bent tubing that is the same diameter as the rest of your exhaust and you are good to go.

Finally, we are at the part that everyone loves, which is the Muffler, or Axleback. This is where the majority of your exhaust tone is going to come from. You can choose a chambered or canister muffler or a twin loop or there are loads of different options here. From what I have seen a Mugen Twin loop adds the most gains, and sounds the best, but IDEFK if they make those for preludes Just make sure the inlet is the same diameter as the rest of your exhaust and you will be fine.

The most important thing with an exhaust is DO NOT BOTTLENECK. Bottlenecking is when you go from a larger diameter pipe, to a smaller diameter pipe, IT KILLS EXHAUST FLOW. You will lose madd power by doing this. From the collector on your header to the inlet on your exhaust should all be the same diameter. For your basic bolt ons I would suggest staying with a 2.5" exhaust. If you go into building a real NA machine, move on up to 3", same thing with going into the FI. But if you are just going to go into your bolt ons and be done, then stick with a 2.5"

Also, STICK TO NAME BRANDS. They are popular for a reason, because their products are good. You get what you pay for, and you gotta pay to play. Don't spend $150.00 on a header and expect madd gains, because honestly you will be lucky to get any gains. But with an intake, this isn't the case, because all of the piping is the same, some is carb legal, others aren't. But here in the great state of Ohio (well in our area anyways) we don't have emissions and **** to worry about, so just get some cheap ass ebay piping and a K&N filter and call it a day. There is no difference in the piping, except for the diameter. Personally, I have been thinking about fabbing something like this up for my 'Lude, I used to have one for my teggy:

IMPROVED: DIY "Icebox" style CAI - Team Integra

All the gains of the Mugen Intake with none of the cost.

Continuing off of what I said in the beginning, you aren't really going to see anything from your bolt ons. They add power that your butt dyno will pick up on, but not much actual power. Personally, I suggest getting a chipped ECU, and having it basemapped for your H23. Then take it down to Honda Bob, since we are so close to Ashtabula (where he resides). And have him tune you to unleash more power. I have seen up to 10% gains on NA cars just from a tune, and up to 30% gains on FI cars. For a chipped ECU, I would go here:

Phearable.net - Electronic Fuel Injection Tuning Solutions - Hondata, Neptune, Crome, Uberdata, Ectune, AEM, Honda Tuning, Widebands, Fuel Pumps, Intercoolers, Turbos, LS/VTEC, ECU Chipping, Chipped Ecus, P28

But this leads me to my last point. If you want real power, you are going to have to get into Forced Induction. There is no doubt about it, the NA (naturally aspirated) path is just too hard to make good power for a decent price. You would need to entirely re-design your engine and re-engineer everything, and it is just not in anyone's budget. But you can't cheap out on FI either, but it is just far easier to make power going FI than it is going NA.

But once again, the most important part of making power or modifying an engine is to GET A TUNE. YOUR ENGINE WASN'T MADE TO RUN WITH THESE AFTERMARKET PARTS, IT NEEDS TO BE TUNED FOR THEM SO IT CAN USE THEM EFFECTIVELY TO MAKE POWER. Sorry for shouting but that NEEDS to stand out. If you go for boost, you NEED A TUNE. None of this FMU trash. Get it chipped, get it tuned. /endstory

I know I'm leaving a lot out, but I figured this would be a good platform to build off of. Do your research, there is a ton to learn, this is your car, build it your way, but all I ask is you don't lego build. Decide what kind of power you want the car to have and then pick parts that compliment this kind of power, if you want low end, get parts that add to low end, if you want high end, pick parts that will help carry power to the upper reaches of your Powerband. DO NOT LEGO BUILD. Don't pick parts just because they are shiny or cheap or whatever. Do your research and make sure the parts you are buying are going to work for your build, and add power where you want it and how you want it.

But I'm done ranting and rambling for now. You got my number if you need any questions
Wow! That helps a lot man. Thanks. You may have saved me a lot of money here shortly. Could I pick our brain for awhile!??? lol F22 4 LIFE
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Old 07-16-2010, 04:42 PM
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Re: fixin up my 4th gen

Lol honestly I learned most of that from when I had my teggy, there are a ton of articles I can link that may be relevant and help with learning about this stuff. I'll try and find some that aren't strictly for integra's.
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Old 07-16-2010, 05:48 PM
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Re: fixin up my 4th gen

Here are those links I was talking about above:

Starting off with information on Intakes:

Intake Information - Team Integra

Next we will move onto the exhaust section:

An Exhaust Introduction:

Advanced Exhaust Tech I - Team Integra

And a continuation of that article:

Advanced Exhaust Tech II : Backpressure and Area - Team Integra

Exhaust Design:

Header-Exhaust Design Effects on Engine Power - Team Integra

Some good Header info:

Header Tech Information (Header Parts & Powerband) - Team Integra

Catalytic Converter Information:

Cats (Catalytic Converters) with Higher Flow - Team Integra

Exhaust Tone Information:

Exhaust design effects on noise - Team Integra

Next well move onto FI Links:

Beginners FI Guide:

Beginners One Stop Turbo FAQ - Team Integra

Turbo Stuffs:

Turbo 101 - Team Integra

Turbo FAQ Updated 10-01-04 - Team Integra

Greddy Turbo Kit FAQs - Team Integra

Supercharger Basics (My personal favorite form of FI):

Supercharger Basics and FAQ - Team Integra

Information on Nitrous (best bang for your buck!):

Nitrous Basics - Team Integra

Nitrous FAQ - Team Integra

And now we get into Suspension:

Suspension for Beginners - Team Integra

Sway Bar information:

Sway Bars - Team Integra

Strut Tie Bar information:

Strut/Tie Bars - Team Integra

Like I said, these are just some links I have from when I had my teggy and that is where I learned a lot of what I know, but if you do some research on your own it will do wonders and you will learn A TON of REALLY useful information when it comes to designing and building a car that is suited for your needs and wants.

Hope this helps.
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Old 07-16-2010, 06:50 PM
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Re: fixin up my 4th gen

Wow, u kno your stuff bro, thats wats up. I learned alot here lol
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