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Old 04-26-2010, 06:02 PM
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Electrical Issues

So, I've bought this 92 prelude thinking it was a good running car. Well, it was a good running car for about a week. Since I've purchased it, I've had springs come lose from the clutch plate (forcing me out of each gear at random), I've blown a hole in the block (damn that sucks), and now I am experiencing some unnerving electrical issues.

I am lacking a multimeter and/or test light and I am completely idiotic when it comes to electrical. I've searched these forums and found a lot of useful information, however, I'm very ignorant to it. Most of my findings consisted of a couple very knowledgeable electronics technicians arguing over who was write and wrong.

I read a thread about "tapping" the ignition system harness. After a careful look under my drivers dash, there's a splurge of wires everywhere from the previous owner and it does appear to be tapped for something but I don't know what. There's loose speaker wires everywhere, blah blah.

What concerns me is that my head unit isn't working and my car shuts off after using the washer fluid switch. It doesn't turn off when the wipers are on, just when the washer fluid pump is activated. Once activated (or shortly after), my entire ignition system seems to flicker on and off. I'm not sure what the hell is going on and it's freaking me out.

I went to replicate the problem to show a friend and it did precisely what I'm explaining. After allowing the system to mellow out or whatever, I began to drive it to grab some lunch at work. The damn thing started to cut off/on while I was driving it (WTF).

I don't know if there's lose wires under my feet that I'm kicking when engaging or disengaging the clutch, or if it's related to the washer fluid switch or what...?

I am going to take pictures under my dash in just a few minutes, I'll post them ASAP. I apologize for the idiocy, I've searched the forums and I can't make sense of anything electrical. I was hoping for some 1-on-1 coaching to figure this thing out.

Thanks for any insight!!!
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Old 04-26-2010, 06:05 PM
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Re: Electrical Issues

lol man, I say buy a new car.
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Old 04-26-2010, 06:12 PM
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Re: Electrical Issues

Dude, I bought this damn thing for $2200, slapped a clutch in it for $725 and now I've got a jdm f22b motor in it for $1700. I'm not buying a new car! Next time you reply, TRY to be helpful. Pleaaase!
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Old 04-26-2010, 06:17 PM
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Re: Electrical Issues

I would say rewire the whole thing, because i also have speaker wires everywhere, I would clean it up and just trace everything. cut the speaker wires, unless you want to put a system. I have a wire from my terminal all the way to my trunk im just like wtf as well.
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Old 04-26-2010, 06:21 PM
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Re: Electrical Issues

I don't think speaker wires are my problem. I have what looks to be a remote wire and rca jacks running to the trunk. Both are disconnected. What I'm concerned with is like these 10 gauge wires showing copper under my feet. I'm tryin to get my camera to work with my computer. I'll post some pics in a few mins.
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Old 04-26-2010, 06:22 PM
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Re: Electrical Issues

Kk, well, seems like a jungle to me. lol
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Old 04-26-2010, 06:31 PM
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Re: Electrical Issues

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Old 04-26-2010, 06:31 PM
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Re: Electrical Issues

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Old 04-26-2010, 06:32 PM
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Re: Electrical Issues

The Yellow wire, black wire, and the red wire at the top of the second picture is what's concerning me. PS ---- IT IS A JUNGLE FLOWW, lol

Last edited by timotee; 04-26-2010 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 04-26-2010, 10:37 PM
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Re: Electrical Issues

right off the top of my head, and basing where those wires are dropping out from below the dash, I would say someone has performed a VERY POOR install of an aftermarket alarm and/or possibly a remote start system.

I have the same year 'lude, you MAY want to take a look at my alarm install and really pay attention to the wire codes/colors and what each is for in such an install. (in my signature bar)

Other than that, you have one large brown connector(ignition), one blue (dash lights/fuel/temp/speedo), and two gray connectors at the fuse block, These must be secure for they are paramount to your dash and ignition system. The next place to check is right up next to the steering column, there is a connector with two wires in it attached to the underside of the "frame" for the column support (see my alarm install for pics of it) If this has come loose than you will be losing power to your ignition system and it would cause a similar issue.

As for the wiper motor?????? The ONLY way I can see that causing a problem is if it is shorting out to another circuit,,,,, which is possible, or MAYBE they tard that put your alarm in tapped into it for a power source????
If I'm not mistaken, that white wire with the Black strip (the one with a wire tie hanging off if it) is one of your Primary ignition wires-- you've got a bad deal going on here by a previous hack.
In cases like this... I would either tell you to start with a new replacement harness.... or I would start disconnecting everything and putting it back together according to the repair guid (available for D/L in the 4th gen forum resource guide)

It also seems that the previous owner has replaced the Master relay and just left it tied under the dash...this is common due to the difficulty of getting to it.. but am I also seeing another aftermarket relay next to it? I cannot tell if that yellow wire is going into it or not. It is hard to trouble shoot for you without being there but I will try my best. You REALLY need to invest in volt/ohm meter.. even a radio shack $10 analog meter is better than nothing at all.
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People say the biggest difference you can change to your system is to add a subwoofer. Which is true, it is the most noticable difference. But running an amplifier to a good set of speakers makes the BEST difference.

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Last edited by LilMsPrelude; 04-26-2010 at 10:45 PM.
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Old 04-27-2010, 12:44 AM
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Re: Electrical Issues

Ya bro that's def a rats nest of wires under ur dash. No bueno lol. As far as suggestions go I can't offer much lol. I was thinkin maybe somethin to do w/ur engine swap coulda done somethin w/a loose end or somethin. But lilmsprelude is our "in house" electrical genius lol so I'd really consider her warnings haha. Good luck
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Old 04-27-2010, 06:34 AM
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Re: Electrical Issues

looks to me like a bad alarm set up as he said.. your gonna have some work on your hands man thats the bad thing of being a prelude owner lol follow the guide disconnect/connect everything under there and if that doesnt work come back
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Old 04-27-2010, 04:22 PM
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Re: Electrical Issues

Quote:
I'm not buying a new car! Next time you reply, TRY to be helpful.
Next time you you buy a car, PLEASE do your homework (and save yourself from problems like this).

Now that I'm done being a douche...

I'm gonna see if I can find the Helms in PDF form (since it has all the wiring diagrams), which might be of some help to you. If someone else knows where to find it, go ahead and post it.
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Old 04-27-2010, 06:16 PM
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Re: Electrical Issues

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Originally Posted by dbd6604 View Post
I'm gonna see if I can find the Helms in PDF form (since it has all the wiring diagrams), which might be of some help to you. If someone else knows where to find it, go ahead and post it.
ummmmmm.......

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Originally Posted by LilMsPrelude View Post
.... or I would start disconnecting everything and putting it back together according to the repair guide (available for D/L in the 4th gen forum resource guide).
http://downloads.hondatech.info/Auto...e%20Manual.zip

That guide has all the wiring schematics he needs......
This is NOT an impossible problem to fix, it is just going to take some time... The question is, what is his time worth? VS. taking it to a 12 Volt qualified electrician?
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People say the biggest difference you can change to your system is to add a subwoofer. Which is true, it is the most noticable difference. But running an amplifier to a good set of speakers makes the BEST difference.

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Old 04-27-2010, 06:24 PM
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Re: Electrical Issues

Quote:
ummmmmm.......
Do I sense a tone? lol We all know you are the guru of something-or-other around here but you can still be nice.

And "That guide" = Helms. UMMMMMMMM
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Old 04-27-2010, 06:37 PM
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Re: Electrical Issues

oh man, does anything to do with the alarm connect to that main relay? (that gray box) i would invest into a meter ($20 or so) if ur even thinking about electrical work. A lot of trouble shooting is all about continuity. Take ur time i would get a good manual for the car. They are worth there weight in gold. ground wires are key. I would test every fuse and relay in the car. I would bring the car back to where the motor was installed and see what they can do for u assuming you had a shop do the work. Good luck dude!
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Old 04-27-2010, 07:55 PM
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Re: Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbd6604 View Post
Next time you you buy a car, PLEASE do your homework (and save yourself from problems like this).

Now that I'm done being a douche...

I'm gonna see if I can find the Helms in PDF form (since it has all the wiring diagrams), which might be of some help to you. If someone else knows where to find it, go ahead and post it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbd6604 View Post
Do I sense a tone? lol We all know you are the guru of something-or-other around here but you can still be nice.

And "That guide" = Helms. UMMMMMMMM
You said it.. you were being a douche... While the helms manual is a nice little touch to have.. the zip file I linked to has ALL the wiring information this guy needs.. hence the reason I linked him to it and re-iterated my post....

and I am not being a b!tch about anything.... I thought I was being rather kind.
I was just confirming what you yourself said.. LOL!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shatterbox View Post
People say the biggest difference you can change to your system is to add a subwoofer. Which is true, it is the most noticable difference. But running an amplifier to a good set of speakers makes the BEST difference.

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Old 04-27-2010, 08:18 PM
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Re: Electrical Issues

I know you were. I just haven't been around in a long time so I have lots of pent up attitude to get out.
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Old 04-27-2010, 09:45 PM
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Re: Electrical Issues

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Originally Posted by dbd6604 View Post
I know you were. I just haven't been around in a long time so I have lots of pent up attitude to get out.
Darn it... you should have caught me about a month ago..... LOL...

(long story) - now I am just ...mellow.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shatterbox View Post
People say the biggest difference you can change to your system is to add a subwoofer. Which is true, it is the most noticable difference. But running an amplifier to a good set of speakers makes the BEST difference.

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Old 04-27-2010, 09:55 PM
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Re: Electrical Issues

Quote:
Darn it... you should have caught me about a month ago..... LOL...

(long story) - now I am just ...mellow.
Well...hit me up with it sometime lol.
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Old 04-28-2010, 06:27 AM
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Re: Electrical Issues

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Originally Posted by dbd6604 View Post
Next time you you buy a car, PLEASE do your homework (and save yourself from problems like this).
Listen, A**hole. Not everyone is a car genius. I test drove the car, I kicked the tires, I pulled the dip sticks, I checked for leaks. I did all the homework I could do. How many people do you know (personally) that would actually crawl on their back and check for wiring issues?

I would appreciate it if you would help me in being productive rather than posting ignorant comments that doesn't do anyone any good. I LOVE preludes and I wanted one bad. These cars are OLD and they are going to have problems. I'm asking for HELP, not misinformed, unenlightened, and witless annotations.

This car is a half DD and half project car and I knew that when I bought it. So before you pretend to know someone's situation, please, please, do us all a favor, jump in a lake and cleanse yourself of bad attitude.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilMsPrelude
right off the top of my head, and basing where those wires are dropping out from below the dash, I would say someone has performed a VERY POOR install of an aftermarket alarm and/or possibly a remote start system.
I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilMsPrelude
I have the same year 'lude, you MAY want to take a look at my alarm install and really pay attention to the wire codes/colors and what each is for in such an install. (in my signature bar)
Will do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilMsPrelude
Other than that, you have one large brown connector(ignition), one blue (dash lights/fuel/temp/speedo), and two gray connectors at the fuse block, These must be secure for they are paramount to your dash and ignition system.
I forgot to mention that my speedometer, odometer, and tripometer all drop dead at random as well. It seems like if I'm accelerating hard, all three of these items go dead, check engine light comes on when decelerating. Could these two gray connectors cause this? I'll check for security and get back with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilMsPrelude
The next place to check is right up next to the steering column, there is a connector with two wires in it attached to the underside of the "frame" for the column support (see my alarm install for pics of it) If this has come loose than you will be losing power to your ignition system and it would cause a similar issue.
Will do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilMsPrelude
I would either tell you to start with a new replacement harness.... or I would start disconnecting everything and putting it back together according to the repair guide (available for D/L in the 4th gen forum resource guide)
I'm scared. :( Which of these two would be the easiest for a rookie electrician? I'm looking to stay as close to plug-n-play as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilMsPrelude
It also seems that the previous owner has replaced the Master relay and just left it tied under the dash...this is common due to the difficulty of getting to it.. but am I also seeing another aftermarket relay next to it?
I believe the second one that you are seeing is just a gray box/casing. I think it's just gutted and hanging there. I'll double check and see if there's any wires going to it. I'll also try to post some more pictures. I tried to get the best angle I could so that you could see everything.

I think that my father-in-law has a multimeter. Will that suffice for the job? It's one of those things where you can click it around to ac/dc and all kinds of other crap that I have no idea what to do with :)

lilmsprelude, THANK YOU FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE ON THIS. When/if I get this thing figured out, I'm donating to this website and I'm sending you some cookies!! :D Or maybe I'll donate to you and send this website some cookies! HEHEHEH!

Last edited by timotee; 04-28-2010 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:51 AM
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Re: Electrical Issues

A multi meter is exactly what you need... set it on Volts, if it is digital, and make sure to adjust the range to 00.00.
For continuity (trouble shooting ground issues) you would set it to ohms.

As for the entire dash cutting out... I would first check the blue connector that is attached to the under dash fuse box. It is a finicky little connection and will disconnect easily all by itself.. I discovered.


The brown Connector should only have like 4 wires going in to it.. .this is your starter circuit.

As for the Best option? that is entirely up to you... you can spend hours fixing, cutting, splicing and removing unnecessary stuff from under the dash... Just to find out that there is yet another issue causing a similar problem. Think of it like the IACV fix, there are literally a half dozen "problems" that can cause your idle to fluctuate. You have to go through each and resolve the issue before the erratic idle is fixed.
As for a plug and play option, I suppose the closest you are going to get to something like that is to buy a couple new wiring harness' for that mess under the dash. But, if you choose to study the diagrams and fix it yourself, you will be VERY familiar with your cars wiring... LOL!

I just do my best and try to help where I can. Electrical is just one of those fields I like to dabble in.
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Old 04-28-2010, 11:39 AM
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Re: Electrical Issues

I am going to look at the alarm install thread and see if there is anything similar to being installed as an alarm. I wouldn't mind undoing this retarded crap as long as I don't mess anything up. I'm counting on you guys to help me from goofing anything up, lol. I'm not making a move until I'm sure about what I am doing.

First thing is first, unhook the battery, right? lol

I am jealous; looking at ms. prelude's wiring, mine looks like hell.

Regarding the engine install, the shop swears that the guage problem is a speed sensor. Can anyone solidify that? I know I did NOT have any probelms with my gauges until the motor was installed. However, I have had several ignition issues before the engine install. At one point, the car had no power when trying to start the motor and the entire gauge cluster would click on and off. --- I replaced he ground wire to the battery and replaced the terminals as well.

I havent had any issues with the car not wanting to start from a coldstart since then. The symptom of the washer fluid pump issue is a WHOLE lot like the coldstart issue though.
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:09 PM
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Re: Electrical Issues

The only reason I was being an asshole is because of your "Next time you reply, TRY to be helpful" remark. If you wanna be an asshole to someone else on this forum, I can play that game too, so can lots of other people.

Quote:
I test drove the car, I kicked the tires, I pulled the dip sticks, I checked for leaks. I did all the homework I could do. How many people do you know (personally) that would actually crawl on their back and check for wiring issues?
How many people do I know personally? At least 5, especially when it comes to older imports such as ours that are notorious for being modified. It's not that hard to take 30 seconds and get under the dash and take a quick glance.

As for "being helpful," here's my attempt.

In case you have a question regarding the symbols in the wiring schematics: Circuit Schematic Symbols

And if you decide that all this wiring is over your head, which it may or may not be, you might want to check out the company Painless Performance for a replacement wiring harness. I'm not sure if they have one for your chassis specifically, but I think they might have generic harnesses for late model Hondas.

Quote:
First thing is first, unhook the battery, right? lol
Just the negative terminal.

Quote:
Regarding the engine install, the shop swears that the guage problem is a speed sensor. Can anyone solidify that?
As for this, you said the gauges flicker on/off and cut in and out, correct?

If you have any more specific questions and LilMsPrelude isn't around ATM to answer them, I will gladly attempt to help even though you called me an asshole.
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See also: Automotive Pioneer
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:16 PM
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Re: Electrical Issues

Ms. Prelude, I seem to have found at least a source or starting point to my washer fluid/ignition problem.

In your alarm/remote DIY, I saw that you had posted about the harness with the blue tape/coating around it. Upon further inspection of my harnessing, I found a harness that only has maybe an inch or two of that blue material left. It appears to have definitely been tapped. Most of the blue material is gone and there's some kind of wire or two coming out of it. It's not solid, pretty, and untouched like your wiring harness in the DIY.

You also mentioned in your DIY thread that this blue harness controls the switches for the wipers and wash fluid. I followed the wire just to make sure where it was going as there is only a little bit of the blue material left. It runs directly to the back of the steering column and again, appears to have been tapped.

I went to take a picture after work today. I pulled the wires down a little bit to take a picture and show it to you. After that, I was ready to go home. So I put the key in the ignition and well..... hmm... the car turns over, fires for a split second and then goes completely dead (WTF!!!)... I saw the correlation between me touching the wires for the picture so I simply kicked my foot up under the dash to jiggle the wires... What do you know.. all of my dash lights re-illuminate and I can start the car just fine.

ALSO; I noticed that if you have the key to the KEY ON ENGINE ON position and attempt to click the ignition key back one time to the KEY ON ENGINE OFF position, it will shut off all of my accessories, but leave the engine running. You have to go back two clicks to KEY OFF ENGINE OFF to turn the engine off and accessories off.

In other words, if I have my air conditioning blower motor running on the climate control, turn the key back to the KEY ON ENGINE OFF position, the blower motor will shut off but the engine continues to run.

My 2004 Camry (and most every other car I've ever driven) will turn the engine completely off if you turn it to the KEY ON ENGINE OFF position, but leave the accessories active.

Is my prelude supposed to operate in this fashion or is my wiring just completely jungle-fied like we've already assumed?

If our assumption is correct and the blue harness has been tapped, should I follow the suspect wires and try to find out where they go? If they were tapped for an alarm and/or remote start, wouldn't there be some type of computer brain or other electronic component that it would run to? Should I be looking for this? I'm afraid to touch any of it. Now that I know I can just kick the damn wires to create or un-create a funk, I'm really sketched. I'm not going to tackle it until I get my usual consecutive two days off from work.

If you could help me come up with some kind of game plan or insight on how to tackle this thing a little more specifically I would be indebted to you entirely. Is there anything more that I can do (without taking anything apart just yet) to gather more information for you that would clear up any confusion?

Thank you so much, I know I keep saying it but this is a really big help! I'm trying to get my stupid computer to work with my phone so I can get the new picture posted. I'm going to snag my wife's cam to see if I can get a clear shot before it gets too dark.
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:21 PM
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Re: Electrical Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbd6604 View Post
The only reason I was being an asshole is because of your "Next time you reply, TRY to be helpful" remark. If you wanna be an asshole to someone else on this forum, I can play that game too, so can lots of other people.
I'm not here to play games and quite frankly, I'm not listening to a damn word you say at this point because you wanted to dart off and be a jerk from the start. I specifically PM'd Ms. Prelude for her assistance and I'm not going to pollute this thread with any more nonsense.

I'm VERY new to the modification scene and I didn't think to crawl under the dash to look at wiring. OOPS, MY BAD. Now that we've re-hashed the mistake, I'm looking for SOLUTIONS.

Thank you for your input but I'm suspect at this point and you did that to yourself.
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Old 04-28-2010, 07:47 PM
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Re: Electrical Issues


The prelude in question


This is a shot looking further into the steering column. Pretend you were the brake pedal and you were gazing into a jungle of wires. The other relay you suspected is CLEARLY EMPTY in this shot.
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Old 04-28-2010, 08:20 PM
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Re: Electrical Issues

well... I dont know what to say... lol....

Go ahead and remove the plastic trim panels, knee bolster and the HVAC tube that goes to the drivers door. just like I did in the alarm install. This will give you a MUCH better look at the whole mess, you may even want to remove the screws from the bottom of the steering column trim.

You have a mess, that is for sure. I see at least three Very poor splices made in the picture you just posted. The alarm brain may have been removed. If you aren't finding a plastic connector to prove such a point, the person that did it may have just Clipped the wires... I would consider this a Worst case scenario.

There is no easy way i can tell you to do this. A new harness would be best, BUT, are you willing to take your dash apart to install it properly? --Ironically I also made a DIY for removing the 4th gens dash completely... LOL!
If you are a patient person and can afford a weekend, you might want to print out the wire schematics from the pdf file and just start tracing wires. FYI: Honda does not, did not, just randomly tap wires willy-nilly. This may be a good place for you to start getting rid of bad connections.

My wiring looks like it does because I took the time to put conduit over the wires, route my wiring properly when I had it apart, and over all an obsessive compulsive behavior when it comes to wires. I wish I had some pictures of some of the wireless/microwave CATV or pump control circuits I used to build... LOL. I am much less OCD now believe it or not. *giggles*
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People say the biggest difference you can change to your system is to add a subwoofer. Which is true, it is the most noticable difference. But running an amplifier to a good set of speakers makes the BEST difference.

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Old 04-28-2010, 08:37 PM
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Re: Electrical Issues

Do you see the black wire at the very bottom of the last pic? It's just hanging there. If I can remember correctly, It's showing copper too I think. I don't mind taking the dash apart, especially with your DIY write ups, they're clean cut, very informative and the pics are priceless. For now, I'm going to open up the dash as much as I can while still being driveable and try to get some more helpful pictures.

I'm not touching any wires until I have some days off though. I'll pull some dash apart and get those pictures tomorrow as well as study the diagrams and the DIY a little more. Wiring diagrams have always confused me so I better get cracking. I don't mind doing a big job on my own but I always like to dive into it a little more educated.

I've pulled motors, swapped trannys, and converted trannys but the damn electrical thing always got me in a bind.
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Old 04-28-2010, 10:12 PM
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Re: Electrical Issues

heehee.. and the wiring does not bother me but I could NOT imagine pulling an engine... LOL.

Your gonna be fine... you are doing exactly what you need to do... study, study, study... it will make sense once you get into it.
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People say the biggest difference you can change to your system is to add a subwoofer. Which is true, it is the most noticable difference. But running an amplifier to a good set of speakers makes the BEST difference.

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