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Old 11-19-2008, 07:41 PM
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Does exhaust size matter?

dumb question or not...

does exhaust size really matter? as in having a 3' or 2' or 2.5'?
what if you put a 4' exhaust? would it affect the car or not? this is with just minor moods like header etc.... no turbo or internals. just curious about it.

would it run freer if the exhaust is bigger etc.?
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:10 PM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

for your setup 2.5" would be perfect. 3" is better for turbo. its good to have big but not too big. need a little bit of back pressure in there
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Old 11-19-2008, 08:33 PM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

yup, i got a 2.5' on mine. that back pressure thing makes sense though. but thats were i want to get to, im not changing my exhaust or anything but what happens if someone decides to put a bigger exhaust on? etc...
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Old 11-19-2008, 10:53 PM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

well with yours, as in no turbo, putting on a larger exhaust would be counter productive. you might as well leave the stock one on if you are going to do that because with an NA engine, you still need some back pressure to preform well, as hardwhite was saying.

and a 4in exhaust would just look plain ridiculous
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Old 11-20-2008, 12:36 AM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

To help with exhaust issues, you can try and wade through this: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1630548

It helps separate the misconceptions between back pressure and flow velocity.

Also, check some of the other links I have posted in this thread:
Exhausts, Cat-back, wtf?

You don't need back pressure. It's flow velocity that you want to target which involves doing math to determine the exact diameter that is most productive. Happy reading. :)

Last edited by juniorlude; 11-20-2008 at 12:39 AM.
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Old 11-20-2008, 01:58 AM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

i stand corrected. i guess thats why we have forums

thanks
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Old 11-20-2008, 12:30 PM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

run a 2.33 or 2.25 setup, it sounds alot smoother.
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Old 11-20-2008, 01:42 PM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

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Originally Posted by guti776 View Post
dumb question or not...

does exhaust size really matter? as in having a 3' or 2' or 2.5'?
what if you put a 4' exhaust? would it affect the car or not? this is with just minor moods like header etc.... no turbo or internals. just curious about it.

would it run freer if the exhaust is bigger etc.?
a 4 Foot Exhaust..??? (4' ?? lol.. you mean 4")

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Old 11-20-2008, 02:09 PM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

lilbluelude has 4" on his high boost 3rd gen I believe.

If you have an H22, 3" is good.
There aren't any dyno comparisons of 2.5 and 3 for the F22 and H23 that I know of but 2.5" definitely work on those two.
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Old 11-20-2008, 02:29 PM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

im surprised people still believe in backpressure.
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Old 11-20-2008, 03:24 PM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

When people believe that they have a "lack of backpressure," isn't it really just ****ty exhaust cam timing?
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Old 11-20-2008, 04:26 PM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

back pressure bad, flow velocity good. velocity promotes scavenging.

anyways, 3" is actually beginning to be the proven good size IF you get it tuned. otherwise i think an untuned 3" doesn't really help as much as a 2.5" would. threads posted by blake (98vtec) on HT and a few other places are very informative on this issue if you want to read further.

but at the end of the day, it also depends where you want to be making power. like the difference between a short ram and a cold air intake, and even header runner size and length, it all comes down to where you want the power. a fat exhaust won't help low end but a small exhaust won't help high. 2.5" still has my preference for a good compromise.
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Old 11-20-2008, 04:40 PM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

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Originally Posted by 98vtec View Post
im surprised people still believe in backpressure.
They will for the next 50 years.
Just visit my home town and ask anybody running 2" exhaust on their 350.
On second thought, don't waste your time.
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Old 11-20-2008, 05:36 PM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

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Originally Posted by Storm_Rider View Post
back pressure bad, flow velocity good. velocity promotes scavenging.

anyways, 3" is actually beginning to be the proven good size IF you get it tuned. otherwise i think an untuned 3" doesn't really help as much as a 2.5" would. threads posted by blake (98vtec) on HT and a few other places are very informative on this issue if you want to read further.

but at the end of the day, it also depends where you want to be making power. like the difference between a short ram and a cold air intake, and even header runner size and length, it all comes down to where you want the power. a fat exhaust won't help low end but a small exhaust won't help high. 2.5" still has my preference for a good compromise.
i wouldnt necessarily say that velocity in itself promotes scavenging, but velocity is the key in building the proper exhaust. Scavenging comes from the use of merge collectors and properly tuning each cylinder in-sync via programmable ecu or standalone.

The use of a merge collector with equal length runners promotes scavenging. Each time the exhaust valve opens to release the burnt exhaust gases, its creates a "pulse" that resonates through the runner and eventually dumps into the exhaust. If you use a merge collector, you can take advantage of these pulses. When an exhaust pulse passes through a properly designed merge collector, it creates an area of low pressure (vacuum) on the tail end. This vacuum "sucks" the next exhaust pulse through the collector thus increasing exhaust velocity. Now, if you tune each cylinder to create the same cylinder pressure, the exhaust pulses will all have the same amount of velocity going through the collector which creates an equilibrium in the exhaust and creates a higher engine efficiency. Next you can mess with cam timing to optimism exhaust velocity and you can only really do that with a dyno.
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Old 11-20-2008, 06:00 PM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

from waht i know its the header size that matters not the exhaust down pipe matters
well exhaust diameter matters but not as much as headers
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Old 11-20-2008, 06:20 PM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

Blake hit the nail on the head. I'm reading "Honda/Acura Engine Performance" by Mike Kojima right now, I just read the part on headers, and it's exactly what Blake said. And there is a LOT more to headers/exhaust than just the "size." You have to take into account the size of the primaries, whether they are stepped or not, length of the primaries, etc. Like he said about the "pulse" that is created by the vacuum, if it is not correctly timed, exhaust gases with one cylinder can interfere with exhaust gases from another cylinder trying to exit. I think this is where anti-reversion comes into play. Obviously, you want the "pulses" timed so that exhaust gases from one cylinder don't interfere with gases from another cylinder, and anti-reversion headers help to prevent this interference (backflow during valve overlap) even more. Like stated before, you don't need backpressure, you just need proper exhaust timing. Even if you do have perfect exhaust timing (pulses), a too small/big exhaust diameter can pretty much ruin your exhaust velocity, which you need, and increase backpressure, which you don't need.
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Old 11-20-2008, 07:02 PM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

i'm just going off what i read many times on here. lol. if people are misinforming me then i'm sorry for misinforming others, i'd like to hear the truth about this though so i don't **** up again. i'm gonna start researching this now
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Old 11-20-2008, 08:42 PM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbd6604 View Post
Blake hit the nail on the head. I'm reading "Honda/Acura Engine Performance" by Mike Kojima right now, I just read the part on headers, and it's exactly what Blake said. And there is a LOT more to headers/exhaust than just the "size." You have to take into account the size of the primaries, whether they are stepped or not, length of the primaries, etc. Like he said about the "pulse" that is created by the vacuum, if it is not correctly timed, exhaust gases with one cylinder can interfere with exhaust gases from another cylinder trying to exit.
The pulse is not created by vacuum. The low pressure after going through the merge collector is created by the exhaust pulse. The exhaust pulse is created through combustion and the piston pushing the exhaust gases out of the chamber by way of exhaust valve. The pulses will always follow each other, however, not all cylinders will combust and create the same amount of cylinder pressure and velocity. So one pulse that enters the merge collector may not be traveling as fast as the one in front of it or behind it. This creates a restriction. If you can make each cylinder have equal cylinder pressure and velocity exiting the valves and entering the merge, then they will ALL be working together instead of some working with each other and other pulses working against each other.

Quote:
I think this is where anti-reversion comes into play. Obviously, you want the "pulses" timed so that exhaust gases from one cylinder don't interfere with gases from another cylinder, and anti-reversion headers help to prevent this interference (backflow during valve overlap) even more. Like stated before, you don't need backpressure, you just need proper exhaust timing. Even if you do have perfect exhaust timing (pulses), a too small/big exhaust diameter can pretty much ruin your exhaust velocity, which you need, and increase backpressure, which you don't need.
All the anti-reversion chambers do is keep the already burnt exhaust gases from re-entering the combustion chamber and diluting the following air/fuel/combustion mixture. This is where to timing of the intake and exhaust valves can really help make more power. If you can time the intake valve to open just as the exhaust valve is closing, that little window that the intake valve is open at the same time the exhaust valve is closing will help clear out the combustion chamber to ready the cylinder with a "cleaner" charge thus create a "better" burn which in turn will create more power.
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:38 PM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

wow! you guys know a lot about this jajaja
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:39 PM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

Blake knows a lot about this. I think I know about it then he corrects me haha.
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:47 PM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

My car, when i down shift, as in going very slow and braking with the down shifts, makes a lot of back fire noises, not as loud as a back fire, but instead small back fires. Kind off like "papapa pa papa pa"
Only when i let off the gas and do this, it sound like that. When i step back on the gas it goes back to smoothness. Since you guys seem to know a lot about exhausts i might as well throw this question in too jaja. Im guessing its normal, or not?
Sounds intimidating though jaja
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:51 PM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

I think it sounds kickass. My car does it too, I think it's normal, especially with a free-flowing exhaust system. I don't think it's anything bad. *starts countdown for Blake to come in and correct me*
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Old 11-20-2008, 09:53 PM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by guti776 View Post
My car, when i down shift, as in going very slow and braking with the down shifts, makes a lot of back fire noises, not as loud as a back fire, but instead small back fires. Kind off like "papapa pa papa pa"
Only when i let off the gas and do this, it sound like that. When i step back on the gas it goes back to smoothness. Since you guys seem to know a lot about exhausts i might as well throw this question in too jaja. Im guessing its normal, or not?
Sounds intimidating though jaja


so does mine.....
but i have a 1.75" hole in my downpipe about 4" after the turbo

sounds like a cam'd SBC, with all the brumbling and gurgling






i wish i had enough money to finish installing my 3" kteller kit i'd prolly be a lil closer to 275lb-ft AND hp.
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Old 11-20-2008, 10:59 PM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

I hear ya brother. Money has been tight lately, REAL tight. I just got my job back though so that should change a little bit.
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Old 11-20-2008, 11:05 PM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

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Originally Posted by twokexlv6coupe View Post
so does mine.....
but i have a 1.75" hole in my downpipe about 4" after the turbo

sounds like a cam'd SBC, with all the brumbling and gurgling






i wish i had enough money to finish installing my 3" kteller kit i'd prolly be a lil closer to 275lb-ft AND hp.

Stopping showing off your massive torque nick lol
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Old 11-20-2008, 11:44 PM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

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Originally Posted by dbd6604 View Post
I think it sounds kickass. My car does it too, I think it's normal, especially with a free-flowing exhaust system. I don't think it's anything bad. *starts countdown for Blake to come in and correct me*
it could be a few things. Your tps could be a little off and when your foot is off the gas, the ecu could think the throttle is still open a tad and it throws a little fuel in there which creates the popping sound. The other thing is that your ignition timing in the decel area is too low causing the combustion event to happen while the exhaust valves are open. I can typically tune this popping noise out. There are a few other things it could be, but really it doesnt hurt anything so whatever.
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Old 11-21-2008, 03:55 AM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

blake just knows too much about everything. i don't think i'll ever be able to say anything where he can't correct me in one way or another lol.
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Old 11-21-2008, 12:40 PM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

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Originally Posted by twokexlv6coupe View Post
so does mine.....
but i have a 1.75" hole in my downpipe about 4" after the turbo

sounds like a cam'd SBC, with all the brumbling and gurgling






i wish i had enough money to finish installing my 3" kteller kit i'd prolly be a lil closer to 275lb-ft AND hp.
his buizness sounds like a spaceship mixed with a chalk board scratching on the ground, lol jp, i still wish i had your lude.
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Old 11-21-2008, 11:16 PM
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Re: Does exhaust size matter?

cool jaja. i love the sound though, makes the car seem more intimidating especially if you hear it coming down to a stop light, or just a stop jaja
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