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bore question

 
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:33 PM
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bore question

im getting uber confused now
i got people telling me the h22a1 is a sleeved block and others saying its not
for a 96 model year engine whats the answer....

i got a guy lined up for the scrubing leak down test balancing and hone-bore depending on what the diamaiter of the cilinder walls come out to.
my question is how many of you out there have been able to rebuild these A1 motors with just a hone and ring replacement, and still achive healthy compression......
if it is sleeved where are the performance ones.....
its almost looking like the corner i was cuting to save $ is coming back to bight me in the ass.

if i do have to bore i will then need at least 10 over pistions and rings meaning for what those cost for a lil more i might as well get hi compresion pistions and for just a lil more the crower rods to do it safely

my deliema,
do it right the first time and you save money in the end.
live with what you build is the user discresion of greed and im very greedy i just wish i had even more money but i gota buy the wifey a 4 runner or shes gona be :zx11pissed: at me forever
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:36 PM
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Re: bore question

Just so you know high compress pistons with the crower rods is putting you at about 1500
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:42 PM
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Re: bore question

ya i know i already declined that from the dude
however he was giving us a deal on them at 600 for the pistions and 450 for the rods because of al the **** we were buying
my advisor and friend sourced them at at flat 900 under a different brand today
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:47 PM
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Re: bore question

you CANT bore out factory sleeves on an h22 or h23. you can get them slightly honed by someone who knows how to and has experience b.c they are not the same as an iron sleeve. if you take too much of of the cylinder wall you will remove the FRM that makes them the way they are and you will have big problems. to "sleeve" an H series motor it will probly run close to 2k or so

you also cant just run any forged internals on the factory sleeves. the only pistons that i know of that you can drop in that are forged is mahle gold series. any other will require resleeving
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:48 PM
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all in all building a H series block or most blocks for the most part cost a SHI load

Save the money and buy the h22 type S motor or w\e they sell on H motors=D

Last edited by hotrod; 10-16-2008 at 03:35 AM. Reason: merging back to back posts.
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:50 PM
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Re: bore question

CP Pistons is the leader in high performance pistons.

These pistons are 87.0mm/3.425" designed for the H22A1 engine. Part # SC7030. The compression height is 1.220". These pistons will yeild 9:1 compression. These pistons are perfect for turbo, supercharger, nitrous or a combination of the 3.

The Honda H22/23 engine require sleeves to be able to run these pistons. This is due to the special coating that Honda uses from the factory. Most aftermarket pistons are not compatable with the Stock Honda H22/23 cylinders.

This kit comes with 4 CNC Machined Pistons, 4 Hardened Steel Pins, a set of Hardened Rings (Harder and Stronger than Nippon or any other company) and wire locks.

wow that says it all
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:52 PM
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Re: bore question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronicus View Post
im getting uber confused now
i got people telling me the h22a1 is a sleeved block and others saying its not
for a 96 model year engine whats the answer....

forever
all engine blocks have sleeves. but as i stated above the h series motors are not your typical iron ones.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:07 PM
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Re: bore question

ya im right back to the ebgening then

how thick is the coating on the cilinder walls and how delicate must this hone be

looked around at the mahle pistions and even they say you need to re-sleeve


if so might as well go iorn and might as well go lower compression psitions and might as well do it right and go turbo
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:20 PM
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Re: bore question

you dont have to resleeve with the GOLD series ones b.c they have a coating on them that keeps them from tearing up your cylinder walls like an ordinary forged internal. but as for the thickness of the factory sleeve i would say 1-2mm but i dont really know. but before i had a shop i would just ask them "do you know what FRM (fiber reinforce metal) sleeves are and if they give you a lost look then walk away

http://www.importperformanceparts.ne...old-honda.html
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:33 PM
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Re: bore question

Umm for one thing Turbo is way to f'n overrated.All motor is alot funner and not so many people do it.If you dont do na then at least supercharge it be different way to many people turbo and it gets old quick and im only 16 ffs.I get really tired of hearing bovs and spooling.I drive my moms 98 buick park avenue around just because its supercharged and never gets old to my ears.

BTW:Anyone who hasnt driven one of those supercharged grandma cars do it there quick as all hell.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:36 PM
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Re: bore question

i had a 88 t-bird supercoupe big deal. mustage GT's can suck on it. and really who cares if your only 16 man. it means nothing. im 12.....and turbo isnt overrated. thats your opinion.
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Last edited by 94ludeguy; 10-15-2008 at 11:39 PM.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:55 PM
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Re: bore question

Not much of an opinion for being overrated its already a fact.Now the sound getting old is my opinion its only fun still to me if im getting plastered into the seat or its done nicely like a quick spool 18g greddy turbo setup or something those are fun.

To be different id try supercharger if you dont na because not alot of people do it and it sounds mean as hell with the right setup and a nice belt=DId do it but the prelude I currently have is just being driven for a year then im finding me a 4ws 4th gen to throw some mad suspension\curve huggin setup on.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:55 PM
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Re: bore question

i love the sound of a good b.o.v
or so lets say i can run those gold mahle pistions if i just slap those in and get new rings ya thern were in a happy world assuming they can perform the worlds most delicate hone i guess but if the sleeves are worn bad enough to not get a good seal against the rings and i loose mad compresion then im a be pissed like a mofo
now lets say that my sleeves are worn bad enough to need to bore, im having trouble finding these mahle pistions with there gold coating or w-e in a 10th over size

and that brings another question how thick is the coating on the sleeves and what are the sleeves made of under the coating.


if it comes down to it i can back out buying all this **** but i only have one day left to do this i need answers fast

im gona call honda and see what they will rape me for on a new set of sleeves maybe i can beat the problem this way eh....:egg:

or maybe i can bore my way through the problem depending on what the sleeves are made of under the coating unles its coated all the way through

im going to hope and pray that if i put my car down and if i rip out this block and if i take it to the machine shop and they say nope its to ****ed we have to bore....im going to hope that dosent happen because then im gona have a torn apart engine with the lack of will to throw the money at a block and your all going to see a really pissed off prelude owner

Last edited by Kronicus; 10-16-2008 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaSSaCrE View Post
Not much of an opinion for being overrated its already a fact.Now the sound getting old is my opinion its only fun still to me if im getting plastered into the seat or its done nicely like a quick spool 18g greddy turbo setup or something those are fun.

To be different id try supercharger if you dont na because not alot of people do it and it sounds mean as hell with the right setup and a nice belt=DId do it but the prelude I currently have is just being driven for a year then im finding me a 4ws 4th gen to throw some mad suspension\curve huggin setup on.
got any facts to support your claim.

its great to be different but you still get slammed in your seat when you shift from 6200 to 4000 and you are at full spool already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronicus View Post
i love the sound of a good b.o.v
or so lets say i can run those gold mahle pistions if i just slap those in and get new rings ya thern were in a happy world assuming they can perform the worlds most delicate hone i guess but if the sleeves are worn bad enough to not get a good seal against the rings and i loose mad compresion then im a be pissed like a mofo
now lets say that my sleeves are worn bad enough to need to bore, im having trouble finding these mahle pistions with there gold coating or w-e in a 10th over size

and that brings another question how thick is the coating on the sleeves and what are the sleeves made of under the coating.


if it comes down to it i can back out buying all this **** but i only have one day left to do this i need answers fast

im gona call honda and see what they will rape me for on a new set of sleeves maybe i can beat the problem this way eh....:egg:

or maybe i can bore my way through the problem depending on what the sleeves are made of under the coating unles its coated all the way through
you cant bored your way through it. once that coating is gone you have to resleeve. but if you take it too a VERY VERY good shop that has experience with these sleeves they should be able to tell you the questions that you are asking about thickness and stuff. but one day is not enough to just figure something and throw parts at it unless you want to rebuild in a 100 miles. but i would call mahle and ask them if they have oversized or what.
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Last edited by hotrod; 10-16-2008 at 03:36 AM. Reason: merging back to back posts.
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Old 10-16-2008, 12:04 AM
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Re: bore question

idk ive just been in to many turbo cars and it seems like every honda is turbod if the person is over the age of 18 because its affordable.Most of the cars in stl that are turbod are done right but there are also alot of ebay kits and junkyard turbo setups that dont do me any good.After seeing my brother blow up his engine driving untuned for a short amount of time I stopped liking them. 00si with precision manifold,tial wg,greddy rs bov,550 injectors I believe,custom piping,Custom 3" exhaust leading to greddy muffler I believe idk,garrett 61 trim turbo,Huge f'n intercooler,front bumper was cut out where si foglights go to make the charge pipes visible and look sicks as hell.After all that and the money going in it blows up cause he was driving untuned which wasnt so bad but the person who last worked on the car didnt tighten all the **** in the motor and forgot to torque the headbolts or w\e I believe and KABOOM.There went my fun for turbo's
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Old 10-16-2008, 12:09 AM
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Re: bore question

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaSSaCrE View Post
idk ive just been in to many turbo cars and it seems like every honda is turbod if the person is over the age of 18 because its affordable.Most of the cars in stl that are turbod are done right but there are also alot of ebay kits and junkyard turbo setups that dont do me any good.After seeing my brother blow up his engine driving untuned for a short amount of time I stopped liking them. 00si with precision manifold,tial wg,greddy rs bov,550 injectors I believe,custom piping,Custom 3" exhaust leading to greddy muffler I believe idk,garrett 61 trim turbo,Huge f'n intercooler,front bumper was cut out where si foglights go to make the charge pipes visible and look sicks as hell.After all that and the money going in it blows up cause he was driving untuned which wasnt so bad but the person who last worked on the car didnt tighten all the **** in the motor and forgot to torque the headbolts or w\e I believe and KABOOM.There went my fun for turbo's
well theres your answer. but you still need a tune with a s/c. so saying you know for a fact that turbos are overrated IS NOT A FACT.
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Old 10-16-2008, 12:30 AM
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Re: bore question

no they are.Theres only prob more then 85% of non riced tuners that drive turbo hondas.The turbo si was simply the reason why I Stopped appreciating the turbo stuff and like i said to many people have them its nice to be different.
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Old 10-16-2008, 12:35 AM
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Re: bore question

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Originally Posted by MaSSaCrE View Post
no they are.Theres only prob more then 85% of non riced tuners that drive turbo hondas.The turbo si was simply the reason why I Stopped appreciating the turbo stuff and like i said to many people have them its nice to be different.
yeah its a FACT you will blow your car up if untuned.not if you have a turbo

the same results will happen happen with an untuned s/c please get your facts strait before posting a comment like that

now lets get back on topic
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Old 10-16-2008, 01:00 PM
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Re: bore question

^^ agreed - it's getting old listening to you argue your opinion massacre - no one cares what you think except you


As for your boring stuff - what you are TECNICALLY supposed to do is get everything you want for your engine before you take it to the machine shop. Take mine for example - I am going with 89mm oversize low compression pistons - which means when they drop the sleeves in the bore need to be like 91 or 92mm, so that when they drop the sleeves in the pistons will fit the sleeves. (idk exact measurements, im still looking into everything for my build....lol)

Basically get what you want to run in your engine, take it to the machine shop and say "make it work" I have visited a machine shop and they told me this is the best way to go - it will obviously cost a pretty penny, but if your ready for it and you wanna do it right THE FIRST TIME to make sure everything is exactly the way you want it, then it's completely worth it
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Old 10-16-2008, 09:01 PM
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Re: bore question

i found a way out and on a budget

bud long motor sports out here in albuquerque will re-selve my block for 120 a cilinder this is all they do all day every day is cleaning leakdowns boring sleeving grinding and balancing dudes been working on hondas for over 15 years

he also warantys his work

the catch is he cant dart them and no one in town can according to them but he can put run of the mill iorn's in there. if i heared the guy right including parts 120 a cilinder but even that dosent seem right i think thats just for the work i better get down there and talk to them tomorow.
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Old 10-17-2008, 01:26 AM
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Re: bore question

.25 to .26mm is the bore limit.

buy yourself a factory service manual and read it.
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