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Help me find a new engine

 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2008, 10:48 PM
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Help me find a new engine

well i have some cash to burn and am begening my quest to put some more power down.

the budget...the budget always the first question.
not as important as the goal

i need to put down at least 300whp AT LEAST

my problem comes from aflicting opionions im getting from friends.
one is telling me to do a simple b18 gsr turbo setup, cheap effective

another is saying go with a b20 theres not enough stuff for the h22 to go all out with it and not destroy it.

and im thinking the h22 is the bigger motor which is always the best place to start.

honestly im, looking for something i crate over here, instal a turbo and go have it tuned....something top shelf.

have some of you had better luck building your motors on your own recipie's....got any?


with what im looking at throwing at this id like it to be able to run better than teens even in summer heat.
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Old 10-06-2008, 01:17 AM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

wow...
do me a favor and never listen to your "friends" again, particularly the ones who are telling you to go b18/b20
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Originally Posted by Brash View Post
But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 10-06-2008, 01:33 PM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

I'm happy with the H-22, if your gonna turbo it, you'll easily throw down 300whp with some intake, catback, etc. Just my 2c's
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Old 10-06-2008, 10:23 PM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

ok lets say the goal is 11's at 4500 feet elevation where its usually 70-90 everyday except for a very short winter.

how much block work is gona be due.

how much boost..

where are these parts im having less than any luck finding a motor ready to go or the parts to accomplish this. echos what they were saying about cheaper on the b series but belive me i do want to stay H!

does anyone have any proven recipies....
something out of a mag....maybe..

and what about the tranny axles and so on..


maybe even ask whats the highest output preludes on here what do they make and what did the parts come to?

Last edited by Kronicus; 10-06-2008 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:13 AM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

Read your first post over, go kick your self in the nuts, think about what you asked, then use the search tab.

Thats me being an a$$hole.

But really what are you trying to spend, I'd throw that into the first post because that will give all of us people that know things about these cars a good idea of what your going to be able to afford.

Oh here is a good start for getting a built H22
http://www.pocketrocketsracing.com/hoh2h22alssh.html
that guy is the H22 master
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Last edited by mizlude; 10-07-2008 at 12:15 AM.
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:42 AM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

dam thats getting expensive
well id like to try and keep the build under 6-7k with a few thousand tops for other power adders and needed accecories...
its flexable though
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:58 AM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

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Originally Posted by mizlude View Post
Oh here is a good start for getting a built H22
http://www.pocketrocketsracing.com/hoh2h22alssh.html
that guy is the H22 master

he's also a scammer as well. i've heard of too many nightmares about him to not even consider him a reputable builder.


and to the OP: if you think that price is expensive for a built short block, then i'm gonna burst your bubble and tell you that you got into the wrong hobby bud


11's is gonna require around 5-600hp, equating into at least a 5-figure engine alone, not to mention what has to be upgraded for the rest of the car. i'm not saying its not doable, cuz lilbluelude is in the 10's, but i'm pretty sure he's not gonna wanna divulge how much money he's poured into his car.
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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 10-07-2008, 08:15 PM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

im not ready to drop more than 2-3k tops at a short block, without being fully able to utilize what its capaible of meaning even more money into the project

i dunno i dont even think going all out and sleeving it is worth the money....

how many lbs of boost can a stock h22 block take safeley.

if i just wanted to get the bottom end cleaned up honed new rods pistions great bearings etc etc
do basicly the same to the top end but better valesprings valves cams etc

and then get a turbo on there and see what forecomes of it, how much boost could be safeley ran on this block.

then take that and figure sleeve the block toss in a few minimal at best better parts where needed and double the boost...safeley...to how much.

what will the differences put out and about how many k am i looking at for each option.

i dont think an n-a engine build is gona work this time.

thats where im stuck right now.
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Old 10-07-2008, 08:33 PM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronicus View Post
im not ready to drop more than 2-3k tops at a short block, without being fully able to utilize what its capaible of meaning even more money into the project

i dunno i dont even think going all out and sleeving it is worth the money....

how many lbs of boost can a stock h22 block take safeley.

if i just wanted to get the bottom end cleaned up honed new rods pistions great bearings etc etc
do basicly the same to the top end but better valesprings valves cams etc

and then get a turbo on there and see what forecomes of it, how much boost could be safeley ran on this block.

then take that and figure sleeve the block toss in a few minimal at best better parts where needed and double the boost...safeley...to how much.

what will the differences put out and about how many k am i looking at for each option.

i dont think an n-a engine build is gona work this time.

thats where im stuck right now.
Its not the block that is the issue that is the prob its the ring lands on the pistons that are week. Well let me at to that YOU CAN NOT PUT FORGED PISTONS INTO A H22 (unless there mahle or jun) because of what the piston wall are made up of.

Now to the comment " i dont even think going all out and sleeving it is worth the money...." Yes it is if you want to hold any kind of boost over 7 pounds.

How long will a H22 last with a turbo on it? Well if tuned right some people have ran 10 psi on a small turbo and kept them running. If you want to save cash get a f22/f23 short block and slap a H22 head on it then boost the F**K out of it.

P.S cheap and fast there is no such thing my Prelude brother
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Old 10-07-2008, 08:56 PM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

ok but which f22-23 engine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_F_engine#F22B

what tranny anything special need to be fabed for the headswap...cost on that
will it drop right into place.... and as far as engine management is it doable on the stock system..with a different ecu....best to go standalone on it.....
any other quircks
i mean i willing to go with a mut build here if that build can beat another one on output and the price stays the close to the same....

theres no plans out there blue prints with parts costs and output ratings
i thought you guys might have something like this

im goan start looking into f blocks right now....

remember guys i know very little about honda parts combinations what works with what and whats the best bang for the buck.

i spent years doing that with ford ......big mistake.

Last edited by Kronicus; 10-07-2008 at 09:01 PM.
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Old 10-08-2008, 01:06 AM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

Look into the g22/g23 builds aka h22 head on f22/23 block that will tell you a bit more about then I can. As far as a ecu goes a p28 (93-95 civic ex/si) ecu chipped with a hondata s300 would be your best bet. Or a the same just chipped with Chrome (it cheaper but it has some things I don't like about it that im not going into) I'd look them both up before spending the big bucks. That and talk to some local tuners that have played with those programs and see what they like the best.

Have you got on honda-tech and looked around at all on there (big hint a noob on there must use the search button or be ready to get flamed) Check that forum out also
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Old 10-08-2008, 01:20 AM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

How much boost the H22 holds depends largely on the individual motor. Like miz said, some have held up to 10 psi okay, and I've seen some go boom on 5. Yes, a LOT has to do with maintenance and tuning, but if your engine is ragged to begin with, it's like trying to put a crack whore in the Miss USA pageant. Know what I'm saying?
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Old 10-08-2008, 01:35 AM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

ok, i threw out my f22 and i put in a h22a and i am happy. if you want the cleanest motor ever... go to hmotorsonline.com and order the h22a.
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Old 10-08-2008, 11:50 AM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

F22-F23's are all relativily similar. Most of the difference comes from the head and the ECU. Since your talking about frankensteining a F22-23 bottom end and a H22 head, the motor shouldn't really matter too much overal. Everything I know about that frankenstein says that you can swap the H22 head on the F22 block with 1 extra drilled hole. But reliablility is seriously lacking with that frankenstein combo, fyi. If you wanted to try and just run major boost through a forged, sleeved, etc F series, the FxxA heads flow better than FxxB heads. I don't know much on the H series, but everyone always seems to rag it for boost. *shrug* My .02
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Old 10-08-2008, 10:50 PM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

i sourced out a h23 fully sleved and ground up ready to go block for a asking $2k dude says that the owner might let it go for a lil less.
shiping it at about $100 easy from cali to NM

less gambel on this and say im ready to then throw out maybe another $2-3k for engine goodies and hopefully a decent manafold.

in the form of a doller amount how much work would be needed to machine a h22a head i have from the jdm h22a i had. could it fall within $1-2K

that right there falls within 5-7k

i already have a intercooler all the piping and a T3 with flange ready to go

all im missing is the manafold....


then set aside $400 for other needed exhaust goodies.
$400 for a decent standalone or other tuning system
$200 should settle a good tuner.
and at least #300 for a good GOOD remote boost controler.

that brings it to 6300$-8300$
i can do this but i need to get the total build estimate togther a shopping list take that and compare it to a n/a build...maybe a nitrious taylored motor....

trouble is im having a hard time finding exactly the parts i need.

after talking with a few more people today i kinda got the realazation that there just is no safe way to push the h22 weither its strong n/a or conservative turbo build and trust it without sleeves.
so thats outa the question the blocks getting sleeved regardles the cost.

asuming we can keep that and other block related machine work under $2500 that leavs a comfortable 4k to throw ideas at its gona drive higher tho i know....

my biggest second question...again is what about the tranny.
a friend told me the other day about a h-b converion plate so you can easily run a stronger b series gsr tranny or something strong at least. called it the K-killer.
and that your scrued on H trannys.
does anyone make aftermarket h trannys?

Last edited by Kronicus; 10-08-2008 at 10:52 PM.
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Old 10-08-2008, 11:20 PM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by ak_h22 View Post
ok, i threw out my f22 and i put in a h22a and i am happy. if you want the cleanest motor ever... go to hmotorsonline.com and order the h22a.
Best place to order JDM engines from. Top notch customer service too, unlike most of the rest of the import companies who sell you crap and have nothing to do with you after they get your money.
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Old 10-09-2008, 12:00 AM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

im going to go crazy....
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Old 10-14-2008, 09:11 PM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

bit of an update guys i ended up ditching the turbo build due to the roughly 3grand into getting the block sleeved RIGHT and getting everything PROFASSIONALY ballanced, the price on that was a lil to much to bear for what it would make in hp numbers if only the H22 block wasent an aluminum p.o.s.>>>>

what it comes down to is to go turbo vs a good na build forecomes a huge jump in $$$
example to build 200whp on a turbo and yes this means tuned down turbo your looking at about $6-8k done right and tuned right but once your there and once youve got a safe turbo motor runing you can turn up the boost for cheap and hit maybe 100more hp for not much money

however to make that same 200whp on a decent na build well now you can save a whole lot of money for other stuff like guns home projects and _\|/_
ive got everything i need to pump out some good power for a cool $2500
2500 thats it on a busget if i need more power ill bottle feed it or something.
the amazing part is what i got
AEM 30-4100
AEM Six In One UEGO Wideband Kits
1
259.66
259.66

2 Day
ARP 208-4304
ARP Prelude Head Studs - H22A4, VTEC
1
159.63
159.63

2 Day
CLEV MS-2012P
Clevite (93-96) Prelude Main Bearings - H22
1
72.31
72.31

2 Day
CLEV CB-1456P
Clevite (93-01) Prelude Rod Bearings - H22
4
9.59
38.36

2 Day
SKUN 304-05-0210
Skunk2 Prelude Billet Adjustable Cam Gears - 2.2L DOHC, Blue - 2 Gears
1
199.99
199.99

2 Day
SKUNK 658-05-0200
Skunk2 (92-01) Prelude Cam Seals - H-series
1
28.50
28.50

2 Day
SKUN 305-05-0205
Skunk2 (93-01) Prelude VTEC Cams - w/H22a, Stage II (IN. 0.505, 270; EX. 0.465, 275)
1
619.99
619.99

2 Day
SKUN 308-05-0300
Skunk2 Prelude Ti Valve Spring Retainers - B16A, B17A, B18C1/5, H22A, K20A DOHC VTEC Engines
1
189.99
189.99

2 Day
SKUN 311-05-0360
Skunk2 Prelude Dual Racing Valve Springs - H-Series DOHC VTEC Valve Springs - 16
1
204.99
204.99

2 Day
SKUN 310-05-2360
Skunk2 Prelude VTEC Racing Valves - H22A H Series Std Size High CR
1
276.64
276.64

2 Day
WALB GSS342-400-865
Walbro (97-01) Prelude With Install Kit Fuel Pumps - 255 LPH - High Pressure
1
98.28
98.28

Ground
YONA YMGK006
Yonaka Motorsports Prelude Complete Engine Gasket Sets - H22
1
160.34
160.34

all im missing is the rings and thats why i stoped to ask you guys
they say gapless rings make a 10% or more gain across the powerband but...
the added wear on your motor.....is it worth it.?????????
otherwise ill just go with oem HONDA brand replacements.

i neglected to get the hi compression pistions and matching rods because for the whole 1200 i was looking at forking over for them the jump in 1. of compresion didnt seem like it was gona be worth it.

does anyone out there have a set of used hi compression pistions and rods there willing to sell maybe even new?

also im still looking for a budget flywhele......

for note i went with Http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com

Last edited by Kronicus; 10-14-2008 at 09:24 PM.
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Old 10-14-2008, 09:34 PM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by twokexlv6coupe View Post
11's is gonna require around 5-600hp, equating into at least a 5-figure engine alone, not to mention what has to be upgraded for the rest of the car. i'm not saying its not doable, cuz lilbluelude is in the 10's, but i'm pretty sure he's not gonna wanna divulge how much money he's poured into his car.
its also in his 3rd gen which is lighter. cool guy. i was trying to get him to bring it by when he got some parts from me but he said its not very streetable he also said he maxed out his 1200cc injectors or he would put down more
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Old 10-14-2008, 09:39 PM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

don't expect to get the same amount of power going n/a as going turbo for the same price. You can do a build & turbo in that price range if you find everything for a good price. You might have to save money up to get new axles and what not before you go to the 500hp range, but you can build it and run in the 300's in that price range
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Old 10-14-2008, 09:53 PM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

right but to do it safeley you need a sleeved and idealy fully balanced bottom end that chunk of **** right there i was not able to settle on the $$ amount when it comes down to it just to have a turbo setup. and then think about the tranny and axles and other stuff...
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Old 10-14-2008, 09:57 PM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

you can build your bottom end & turbo for that price. i spent only $2k on the kit. with an extra 5g's i coulda built my bottom. Or you could search forums for an h22 or h23 block for sale thats already sleeved, i've seen them for decent prices. That will also cut the price down a little.
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Old 10-14-2008, 10:19 PM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

http://www.preludeonline.com/f30/h23...valves-237911/

**** theres most of what you need. that saves alot of money. not gonna lie, if i didn't sell my turbo and manifold and all already i would buy this i can rape **** on everyone on the road. haha
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Old 10-14-2008, 11:05 PM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

Umm to believe that you can na your car for cheaper is stupid...May come out cheaper but You could have simply turbo'd at 10psi on stock h22 and made just as much as you will with you na.local board guy ran 10psi on his stock h22 perfectly fine till a crash.Na is alot cooler to me but all in all by the time its over you could have made another 100-200hp over what your na will put out. just my 02
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Old 10-14-2008, 11:08 PM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

Personally im 16 so im doing all motor.Due to me ready to order the parts for a fully built head right now but not ready to turbo so i dont wanna roll with turbo cams on a non turbod car yet so. na is my choice.Head will be an h22 with the skunk2 pro valve springs and tit retainers,skunk2 Stage 2 pro cams,PnP if I can afford that as well.Also idk if its true but I have heard that the h22a from 92-96 vtec's have higher compression then the jdm ones due to open compared to closed or the other way around. I heard ones is like 10:1,10:6,11:0
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:37 AM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

right i un derstand im n ot going to make even in the neighborhood of what i was expecting n/a but for the amount of parts and **** the money needed to safelely run boost SAFELEY AND RELIABLY i cant forcome that price id rather put nthat to buying my girl a new car or something.
im going to be happy with my build and if its not enough ill walk that road later.
i spoke with alot of tuners and engine shops over the past few days and there consensus was why dump mad money into the h22 just to try and safely run boost why push the motor harder than its comfortable with it would be better to mildiy build the motor and save the difference

ill be happy if it can put down 200 on the ground

besides this is my work car i drive alot for my job i need something easy on gas and extreemly reliable which got me away from the foremost principle, the reason i bought this car to begin with
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Old 10-15-2008, 11:20 AM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

with all of that stuff you have you better make over 200whp or im going to laugh. I put down 201 and I have i/h/e clutch fly wheel, fuel pump, and the sir spec- s h22 (yeah its the 220hp h22 btw) oh and at the time I had a seat of the pants tuned afc neo.
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:27 PM
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Re: Help me find a new engine

well i got the wide band to get a safe tune going until i make up my mind about a nitrious add on later down the line or not.
if it goes into bottlefeeding ive already got a guy to ecu tune for that.
id hate to ecu tune and then have to tweak it later for the nitrious so just to make shrue shes safe while i break it in we will go wideband.

o ya the guy i was talking to at horsepowerfreaks ran me through the setup with a good tune and no adjustment of the cam gears at sea level the car would turn out between 215-245 whp depending on what else is done if i had hi compresion pistions he recomended them because im at such high elevation but also stated those pistions arent going to make a huge difference when you come down to $-hp factor driving a mile in the sky

he said with everything bought and just slaped in start at around 200whp the number climbs depending on what else is done.

i hate where i live....

Last edited by Kronicus; 10-15-2008 at 10:39 PM.
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