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Old 09-11-2008, 10:43 PM
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Idle Problem

1996 Prelude Si 2.3l

Okay the problem started awhile back when my old radiator started leaking at the top (busted seal I guess).
I didn't have money right away so I drove with it leaking for awhile. I had to frequently stop to let the car cool off. Anyways a couple times I wasn't able to fill it up with water/coolant and so I had to drive it til' I could. When the car got to the red zone (almost immediately) and I came to a stop it would idle from normal (like around 900 rpm's <I thinK> up to an unknown amount now) to high. I replaced the rad quite awhile ago and still have this idling problem and it seems to have gotten a little worse.

Now; from a cold start it has been idling at 2,500 to 3,000 RPM either until I start driving OR sometimes it will idle like that for a couple minutes then drop down to 1,500 to 2,500 RPM.
Either way once I press the gas peddle even if its just a teeny tiny little bit it will start idling up and down rapidly.

A couple things I'm about to do within the next few days that could solve the problem...1. buy new radiator cap. 2. since it's getting cold I'm gonna drain the rad and put coolant in instead of water

Any input is welcomed. thanks.

P.S. Either tonight or tomorrow I will record a video of it idling so you can see/hear where and how it idles.
P.S.S. One more thing..where is the idle adjustment? When it does idle normal it idles a little too high
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Old 09-11-2008, 11:10 PM
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Re: Idle Problem

Ok - there are a few things here:

You should always mix coolant and water - 50/50 even in the summertime and I'll tell you why in the simplest way possible: You need coolant in the system in the summer to keep the system from overheating! In the Winter it is used to heat up the engine - what most people don't know is that it is also used to keep from overheating in the summer time.

Coolant:
Coolant is at it's peak performance in the winter with a 67% coolant mixture with water - it can go down to -84 degrees Fahrenheit (the 50/50 mix that we all use is rated at -34 degrees Fahrenheit) In the summer time it's all about BOILING points, and unfortunately, since it is no good having 100% coolant (which is rated at 312 degrees Fahrenheit) we stick with the 50/50 again, which is rated at 225 degrees fahrenheit. (FYI - water is 212 F)

Now knowing this and seeing you high idle problem, if it IS your coolant system, the biggest factor is that you have no coolant in your system, which is messing with your idle. The coolant is forced into the block by the water pump - and when the thermostat is closed it just recirculates thru the block, back to the water pump, and rinse wash repeat! When the engine gets hot enough, the thermostat opens and allows the coolant to flow into the radiator.

Thermostat:
The easiest way to test your thermostat is to place a .002" feeler gauge in the valve opening and place it into water, heat the water and see at which temperature the valve starts to open and when it is fully open (fully should be around 20 degrees after starting to open) If anything is out of spec from the stamp on the thermostat, then it could be your thermostat having issues

What you need to do is: Go get a coolant system flush - then fill your system with 50/50 mix. Every two years it is recommended that you flush your coolant system and replace the coolant.

Hope this helps
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Old 09-12-2008, 02:30 AM
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Re: Idle Problem

I had straight water. I just put some 50/50 coolant in there after posting this thread to no avail. Yes, I did drain the water first. I still need to go get a new radiator cap. I recorded that idle video from a cold start, but it didn't rev up and down from 2500 to 3500 like it does. It did stay idled high until I started to drive, stopped and then it started idling up and down rapidly.

I'll post the link here. Also, while I was at it I tried recording the sound of my exhaust for the thread Kronicus has. The recording sounded bad though. Anyways to the point.. I noticed black exhaust coming out when revving for the vid it wasn't a lot though, just at a high rev it came out. Oil change is tomorrow so hopefully that will clear up that problem if not..Almost-full tune-up time!
(I say almost cuz I'm not doing the timing.)
I'll post the exhaust video too, but PLEASE NOTE: my exhaust sounds better in person than the cell phone sound quality leads to believe.

Watch the whole Idle video, once it gets to like 45 seconds left while its still in idle it goes up and down slowly, when I look at the temp gauge and the camera goes crazy is when I drive a little bit and STOP and the idle goes up and down fast.
Idle:

Last edited by BlazeYDH; 09-12-2008 at 02:37 AM.
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Old 09-12-2008, 02:31 AM
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Re: Idle Problem

went slow rev up, fast, random.
Exhaust:
http://s62.photobucket.com/albums/h9...t=6c25c604.pbr

Last edited by BlazeYDH; 09-12-2008 at 02:44 AM.
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Old 09-12-2008, 09:51 PM
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Re: Idle Problem

.............
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Old 09-12-2008, 10:04 PM
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Re: Idle Problem

someone please correct me if I am wrong...
but the black smoke usually indicates you are running too rich
Blue = Oil
White = Coolant

as for your rev issue, your ECU is trying to compensate for "some" issue. has your eng lite came on? Have you tried pulling any codes? Since you did boil your system numersous times I would recomend replacing the thermostat first and foremost.

next.... DID you drain half the water BEFORE adding the 50/50 mix? if not, you have done NOTHING to help the cooling system... maybe made it more like .25/99.75... LOL... at the VERY least open the peacock valve and drain half the water... OR BEST, Drain the cooling system completely... AND RESPONSIBLY!!! It is NOT ok to pour antifreeze down the storm drain! --
Then add your 50/50 mix. Run the engin till the thermostat kicks in... cool, top off the radiator.

see if that helps.
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:23 PM
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Re: Idle Problem

I completely drained the radiator before putting in anything. The radiator has the proper amount/mixture of coolant in it. I burped it too. The check engine light came on about a month and a half ago, but I fixed that problem by cleaning the MAF/MAP sensor. EDIT: if the thermostat was bad, wouldn't the temp gauge be off?

Last edited by BlazeYDH; 09-12-2008 at 11:30 PM.
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:46 PM
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Re: Idle Problem

clean out your IACV (idle air control vavle) it is one of the number 1 idle problems for our cars. s.

how to clean the IAV
http://preludezone.com/showpost.php?...6&postcount=15

1st time it was my IACV then second time my intake manifold gasket was leaking heres my thread for my old idle problem. i did pretty much everything possible
http://preludezone.com/showthread.ph...highlight=idle

it could also be your FITV. check this link out. it shows how to bypass it. which is what i did and i have no problems

http://92lude.com/idle_air_control_bypass_mod.htm

if you do decide to try and bypass it make sure you connect the two open ends together with a piece of hose



hope one of these links help
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Last edited by 94ludeguy; 09-12-2008 at 11:58 PM.
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Old 09-13-2008, 12:00 AM
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Re: Idle Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlazeYDH View Post
I completely drained the radiator before putting in anything. The radiator has the proper amount/mixture of coolant in it. I burped it too. The check engine light came on about a month and a half ago, but I fixed that problem by cleaning the MAF/MAP sensor. EDIT: if the thermostat was bad, wouldn't the temp gauge be off?
if it was bad it would be stuck closed and cause you to overheat. it COULD be stuck open and then it would take forever for it to warm up. are you having any overheating problems. cuz if not i would say then its not your t-stat
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Old 09-13-2008, 12:17 AM
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Re: Idle Problem

fast idle control valve seems to be a know problem when you get high idle, also icav (i think that the right name if not its iacv) valve, you might not need to replace it, just clean it
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Old 09-13-2008, 01:30 AM
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Re: Idle Problem

I still say flush the coolant system, just draining it wont do jack diddley if you gots alotta crap in the system, it will just leave it all in there, lol.

LilMsPrelude got it right: blue = oil, white = coolant nad he is also correct with the t-stat -
please check/test/replace or do whatever with your t-stat
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Old 09-13-2008, 04:10 AM
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Re: Idle Problem

No I don't have any overheating problems and I think it takes the normal amount of time to warm up too. I don't need to flush the radiator because its only ever had water in it. The rad isn't even a year old, so there is no need to flush it.
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Old 09-13-2008, 12:26 PM
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Re: Idle Problem

idle did the exact same thing as in her video. if you unplug the electric plug on the IACV when it running and the idle stops surging then that could be it. it will idle rough but not surge. did you try any of the things i posted. i have my doubts that it is the cooling system and definitely not the t-stat
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Old 09-13-2008, 02:42 PM
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Re: Idle Problem

the fact that it has only ever had water in it is a HUGE Concern. Did you go buy distilled water in a bottle when you filled it or did you use plain old tap water... that contains many minerals and trace amounts of chemicals that can harm your cooling system? I know the water was only in it for a year.. but what about the rest of the engine? What about the abuse you subjected it to BEFORE you replaced your radiator?
I quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazeYDH
I didn't have money right away so I drove with it leaking for awhile. I had to frequently stop to let the car cool off. Anyways a couple times I wasn't able to fill it up with water/coolant and so I had to drive it til' I could. When the car got to the red zone (almost immediately) and I came to a stop it would idle from normal (like around 900 rpm's <I thinK> up to an unknown amount now) to high. I replaced the rad quite awhile ago and still have this idling problem and it seems to have gotten a little worse.

Not only does Ethylene glycol (aka Antifreeze) provide BETTER temperature handling Capabilities to plain old water... it also acts as a protectant and prohibits the "growth" of iron oxides (rust) in your cooling system. The added green color makes the antifreeze distinguishable and the only reason its color would degrade is either age or other problems like leaking seals or rings in your engine. It is a good troubleshooting tool in and of itself.
Not to mention the natural quality of the ethylene glycol to act as a lubricator for the water pump and few other moving parts in your cooling system... ie: the Thermostat.
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Old 09-13-2008, 02:46 PM
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Re: Idle Problem

Tap water is only harmful if it contains large amounts of minerals such as calcium, in fact - almost all manufacturers specify that the use of water that you would drink is perfectly fine - needing distilled water is not a necessity anymore.
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Old 09-13-2008, 03:18 PM
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Re: Idle Problem

then again you can pick up some distilled water for pretty cheap.
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Old 09-13-2008, 04:35 PM
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Re: Idle Problem

No I haven't tried cleaning it yet. I need to get some money first.
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Old 09-14-2008, 01:03 AM
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Re: Idle Problem

before you go saying tap water is safe... I Invite you to look at the violoations in your local water system(s).
http://www.ewg.org/tapwater/yourwater/

you notice there are many oxides, calcium, and other trace minerals that can cause problems.

counting on these particle being heavier than the hydrogen and oxygen ( H2O)molecules that make up water itself.
Soooo... When water is heated in a distiller, any dissolved solids such as salt, bacteria, calcium or iron remain solid while the pure water converts to a much lighter steam and is drawn out for condensation. Distilled water has a noticeably bland taste because all of the minerals which give water its flavor have been removed.
AND That is the key why it is BETTER for your cooling system.

The aluminum blocks and other cast items in your car are not as suseptible to the corrosive qualities of the minerals/oxides-- but you still MUST deal with the hard water (read: CALCIUM) deposits... look at your shower door and tell me it can't build up on ANY surface.


(this rant is for educational purposes only--- LOL...)
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Old 09-14-2008, 01:18 AM
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Re: Idle Problem

if you want to getto fix if block off one of the ports on the iacv it works Ive had to do and have done it on more then one of my friend Honda's use duct tape it wont go any were.
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Old 09-14-2008, 01:57 AM
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Re: Idle Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by LilMsPrelude View Post
before you go saying tap water is safe... I Invite you to look at the violoations in your local water system(s).
http://www.ewg.org/tapwater/yourwater/

you notice there are many oxides, calcium, and other trace minerals that can cause problems.

counting on these particle being heavier than the hydrogen and oxygen ( H2O)molecules that make up water itself.
Soooo... When water is heated in a distiller, any dissolved solids such as salt, bacteria, calcium or iron remain solid while the pure water converts to a much lighter steam and is drawn out for condensation. Distilled water has a noticeably bland taste because all of the minerals which give water its flavor have been removed.
AND That is the key why it is BETTER for your cooling system.

The aluminum blocks and other cast items in your car are not as suseptible to the corrosive qualities of the minerals/oxides-- but you still MUST deal with the hard water (read: CALCIUM) deposits... look at your shower door and tell me it can't build up on ANY surface.


(this rant is for educational purposes only--- LOL...)
I won't get into this right now, but for one - pretty sure I already said this...

and two - I just finished my cooling system jobs and lecture, the past three days have been nothing but cooling systems, and I can promise you that if it is safe for you to drink the water - it is safe to put into your system (ACCORDING TO THE MANUFACTURER'S) Clearly distilled is better - it's been purified and got nothing in it - but my point is that the manufacturer's specify that it is ok for regular tap drinking water.

There are of course exceptions to this rule, companies such as Subaru specify the use of a special "conditioner" that you have to put in - all it basically contains is some stop leak, just to play it safe and in case the system starts to leak, well hey - we already specified you put in the conditioner that has stop leak in it - so your good to go!!! not... lol
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Old 11-16-2008, 04:02 AM
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Re: Idle Problem

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Originally Posted by 94ludeguy View Post
idle did the exact same thing as in her video. if you unplug the electric plug on the IACV when it running and the idle stops surging then that could be it.
what could be it? a bad iacv or that plug? sorry if this comes out all jacked up i'm on a psp
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Old 11-17-2008, 09:47 PM
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Re: Idle Problem

Also when I unplugged it it surged up and down really fast but not low- high rpms. the tach gauge moved up and down like a millimeter....
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:44 AM
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Re: Idle Problem

Could I please get an answer.
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Old 12-04-2008, 10:53 AM
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Re: Idle Problem

Your still having the issue?! Jeez, I thought it would have been fixed by now....

I'll keep checkin around to see what it could be man
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:24 PM
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Re: Idle Problem

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Originally Posted by BlazeYDH View Post
Could I please get an answer.

ummmm...

Take it to a Mechanic.


















WUT!? That was an answer.

there are only like a hundred things that can, and DO, Cause erratic Idle in our beloved cars. If you can't figure it out on your own, go to someone that can.
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:41 PM
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Re: Idle Problem

thats werid cuz something like this started a few weeks ago. when i start the car it is at like 3 grand then it drops rapidly then goes straight back up and does this untill i rev the car to about 4-5 grand. then when im driving it will idel at about 2 grand so i pulled the gas pedel back and it does what it does when i start it and i have messed with the throttle cable but i cant figure it out
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Old 12-04-2008, 11:02 PM
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Re: Idle Problem

Yeah I messed with the throttle cable too, but that wasn't the problem (tho my idle did need to be adjusted) It made it work for a little bit then it started again. When my car does idle correctly though it will idle at 500 rpms. I was just wanting a reply from that one guy that said if you unplug this than thats the problem. I'm not too sure what he meant by "that" being the problem. The IACV or the plug? Also, if I unplug the map sensor cable the idle stops jumping completely...
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Old 12-04-2008, 11:35 PM
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Re: Idle Problem

intresting id love to know how to fix mine lol ill be keeping an eye on this post to see if he replys
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Old 12-05-2008, 12:37 AM
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Re: Idle Problem

sry i wasnt paying attention to the thread but what i meant by unplugging it was to see if you sensor what sending mixed signals. causing the bad idle. by unplugging it would idle rough but it would have the same signal. zero.
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