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Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

 
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Old 09-09-2008, 02:54 PM
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Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

So I am wondering, i wanna get some more power out of my motor,i am deff getting a new exhaust fabbed up or i might just buy a full bolt on, i dont want anything ricy or too loud, it sounds nice right now the only reason i will change it is for some gains
but anyway BESIDES exhaust what is the next bolt on or mod, (external or internal) that i can do to get the most gains....

My current setup
Jdm H22 with about 60k
Chipped P13 with supposably a Spoon tune(thats what i was told)
DC Sports header
AEM short ram
stock cat (yes i know i should get a full exhaust thats a deff)
stock piping to welded on no name muffler(looks okay not a fart can/not loud)
Spec stage 2 clutch

so anyway pretty stock, so what is next, ive seen intake manifolds for H22 that offer gains, Cams , fuel rails, heads...etc, i was thinking a small 50-100 shot of nitrous if my motor can handle it, but i would rather stay N/A

i know the Cam in my LS1 made the most HP gain out of all my mods for that thing, so thats why i was thinking of cams for the Lude
but ive heard also you dont wanna mess around with H22 cams

i am capable of doing my own work so thats not a problem, and i am gonna pull the motor soon anyway cause i want/need a new tranny( Second gear synco is shot....i am gonna get a LSD hopefully)
the car is NOT a DD so i can take it off the road and i will eventually get crazy with it but for now
i would be happy with around 230-hp ....maybe for this motor setup
it runs really strong right now and whips 5th gen ludes with ease,
so i know its puttin down decent power right now

eventually i wanna build a forged H22 for boost but for now i wanna see what i can get with this
anyway give me some input guys!!!
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Last edited by EvilBird; 09-09-2008 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 09-09-2008, 03:01 PM
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Re: Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

you've got some great ideas there EvilBird. it's great that the lude is not DD. first and foremost i would go with a high flow cat to complete the exhaust set up (they are really cheap so you should just do it anyway - http://cgi.ebay.com/2-5-inch-Magnafl...QQcmdZViewItem)

there are many routes you could go for gains. biggest gains obviously being from a tune which your lude may or may not have.

if you have the money and are obviously willing to get your hands dirty i would go with cams, retainers, and spring. that is my next mod after i do my fuel management set up.
crower and skunk2 make great cams that produce a pretty good amount of ponies. you could also upgrade your throttle body and have your intake manifold honed to match (port/polish)

good luck with the lude. keep us updated. and gets some pics of the lude up asap!!

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Old 09-09-2008, 03:18 PM
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Re: Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

thanks bro, yea i am hopefully getting a new computer soon so i can post pics, since all my ports are shot in my current one, so unless i go over a friends with my camera it will be a little while till i get some pics up

but i really dont know that much about H22's , ive been in the LS1/Fbody world so long, first with my 99 Z28 and now my T/A, I didnt do much with my Lude, it was just a beater/project....but now that my T/A is done i wanna build the Lude nice

but i was thinking i would go with cams, retainers, and springs like you said but i wasn't sure if this was the next step.....you said your doing this after fuel managment, what are you gonna use for that?
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Old 09-09-2008, 03:27 PM
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Re: Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

well i plan on completing all "circuits" so to speak.

AIR - Type S intake, S2000 Throttle Body, Honed/Port&Polished Intake Manifold (hopefully doing this over the weekend), Header, Collector Mod, Hi-Flow Cat, Apexi WS2 Cat-Back Exhaust

FUEL - AEM fuel rail and fuel pressure regulator (within next month) (not gonna get into injectors just yet)

IGNITION - MSD iginition set up (within next month)

now i have a Apexi VAFCII piggypack system to manage air and fuel and i will have the car tuned once the rest is installed...

i'm goin with CROWER cams, retainers, and valve springs. then tune

also gonna go with AEM cam gears and not sure where i'll go from there.

when you get your comp fixed or over to a friends house i'd love to see pics of all your rides
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Old 09-09-2008, 03:39 PM
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Re: Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

Wow that gives me some idea's, your mods sound good
my problem is gonna be finding someone in Connecticut to tune my Lude

yea ill have to go over my buddies and get some pics up
the Prelude is nothing special but my T/A is very nice...low miles

who are you gonna have P&P your intake mani just a machine shop?
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Old 09-09-2008, 03:50 PM
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Re: Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilBird View Post
Wow that gives me some idea's, your mods sound good
my problem is gonna be finding someone in Connecticut to tune my Lude

yea ill have to go over my buddies and get some pics up
the Prelude is nothing special but my T/A is very nice...low miles

who are you gonna have P&P your intake mani just a machine shop?
not sure if i'm gonna do it myself yet. a buddy of mine has a long narrow grinding wheel that will operate at low speeds and a micrometer to gauge the size. i'm looking to go 64-66mm i think. if i do it myself they sell this liquid paste like slop (can't think of name) that you can press into (air pressure) the mani to smooth it all out. or i will send it out for the port and polish (i think endyn does it)

if you are in CT and willing to travel to NY i've got a friend with a shop here -NO LIMIT- and they can tune your lude and produce some good numbers
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Old 09-09-2008, 03:57 PM
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Re: Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

230hp to the crank or wheels?
i love using this quote, especially since you'll understand it:
"modding a honda isn't like modding an LS1, where you can clean out the ash-tray and gain 40hp"



a chipped p13 is def a good start for an H22, but i highly doubt you have a "spoon" tune. once you get the basic I/H/E done, a professional dyno tune should be your next logical step, which will benefit you the most out of any the mods that have been mentioned in this thread thus far (minus boost)


you say you wanna stay N/A for now, but want boost later down the road. you can't have your cake, and eat it too. it doesn't work that way. mostly all mods are specifically designed for either N/A, or F/I, so if you start buying sh!t now then radically change directions later on, you'll be out thousands of dollars.
sit down and figure out what you wanna do now, before wasting alotta time/money.
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:36 PM
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Re: Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

230hp to the crank would be good.... 230hp at the wheels would be even better

the thing is i am trying to be realistic and not spend tons of money right now considering i just sunk $5,000 into my LS1, thats why i was thinking staying N/A
Eventually I want even more HP than 200, and the reason i was talking about boost later on is the amount of power i really want, would require boosting i would think......
the only reason i am not going boost right now is because i thought stock H22's cant handle a lot of boost, and i dont wanna rebuild this motor,
thats why i thought i would build this one N/A see what HP i cant get out of it and run it for awhile....
Then some day when i got some more $$ saved up, I wanna find another H22 build it with forged internals and the whole nine so it can take the abuse, eventually putting the Boost motor in and i would sell the N/A H22....... i dont know does that seem crazy?

i wish i could just go boost right now but i dont have the dough just yet to rebuild my motor

Yea i hear ya on the Ecu, im not sure if it really is a Spoon tune considering it is just written on the ecu with a marker........lol
but thats what the dude told me it was, and the redline is set higher than a stock one and like i said it rips right now

but yea i figured a tune would be next, i would not mind going to NY if i knew the shop could tune Hondas good.

i guess i will start with p&p the intake mani, and maybe then some cams and then get a tune

as far as TB is the S2000 TB the way to go?
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Old 09-09-2008, 07:15 PM
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Re: Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

Yo son, just paint flames on that bitch, 200 hp AT THE WHEELS!
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Old 09-09-2008, 07:37 PM
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Re: Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

Quote:
Originally Posted by twokexlv6coupe View Post
230hp to the crank or wheels?
i love using this quote, especially since you'll understand it:
"modding a honda isn't like modding an LS1, where you can clean out the ash-tray and gain 40hp"



a chipped p13 is def a good start for an H22, but i highly doubt you have a "spoon" tune. once you get the basic I/H/E done, a professional dyno tune should be your next logical step, which will benefit you the most out of any the mods that have been mentioned in this thread thus far (minus boost)


you say you wanna stay N/A for now, but want boost later down the road. you can't have your cake, and eat it too. it doesn't work that way. mostly all mods are specifically designed for either N/A, or F/I, so if you start buying sh!t now then radically change directions later on, you'll be out thousands of dollars.
sit down and figure out what you wanna do now, before wasting alotta time/money.
He stole my post. No matter what mods you get you need to ditch the "spoon chip" even if it is a spoon program... I/H/E doesn't require it, but I picked up significant power over the p13 with a chipped p28... the torque through the powerband is amazing compared to stock... I'm on eCtune, but hondata, chrome, neptune, etc can accomplish a similar end... you've gotta get on the dyno though man; I would post a link (with dynocharts and video of my tune), but I wouldn't want to some across as "advertising"... go to my members ride page and you will find dyno charts and/or a link to my chipped p28 in my list of mods.
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Old 09-09-2008, 09:27 PM
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Re: Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

dont waste your money on the fuel rail tho. unless you want it for looks cuz the stock one carries plenty of fuel for your goals
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Old 09-09-2008, 11:31 PM
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Re: Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

ditch the ignion also our stock can hold up its own for much more than you plan on doing, just a waste of money imo
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Old 09-10-2008, 12:46 AM
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Re: Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

a NX n20 kit. H22's like N20 that is for sho
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Old 09-10-2008, 11:00 AM
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Re: Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

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Originally Posted by mr_y82 View Post
He stole my post. No matter what mods you get you need to ditch the "spoon chip" even if it is a spoon program... I/H/E doesn't require it, but I picked up significant power over the p13 with a chipped p28... the torque through the powerband is amazing compared to stock... I'm on eCtune, but hondata, chrome, neptune, etc can accomplish a similar end... you've gotta get on the dyno though man; I would post a link (with dynocharts and video of my tune), but I wouldn't want to some across as "advertising"... go to my members ride page and you will find dyno charts and/or a link to my chipped p28 in my list of mods.
Sweet bro thanks,this is what ive been hearing...... how much $$$ we talking for this kinda setup? what did u spend if u dont mind me asking?
i know tuning is key thats why i brought my T/A to Eastside Perf. cause they specialize in tuning Ls1's......i wish there was a Honda tuner closer to me....

Quote:
Originally Posted by 94ludeguy View Post
dont waste your money on the fuel rail tho. unless you want it for looks cuz the stock one carries plenty of fuel for your goals
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2.2Lude View Post
ditch the ignion also our stock can hold up its own for much more than you plan on doing, just a waste of money imo
Thanks guys this is all really good stuff!!!!, thats why im asking i dont want to buy **** that isn't gonna give me any gains........

Quote:
Originally Posted by mizlude View Post
a NX n20 kit. H22's like N20 that is for sho
how do H22's hold up wit n20? how much of a shot is safe?
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Old 09-10-2008, 03:17 PM
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Re: Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

increase displacement.
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Old 09-10-2008, 03:25 PM
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Re: Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

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how do H22's hold up wit n20? how much of a shot is safe?
http://preludezone.com/showthread.php?t=10541
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Old 09-10-2008, 07:28 PM
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Re: Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

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Originally Posted by EvilBird View Post
Sweet bro thanks,this is what ive been hearing...... how much $$$ we talking for this kinda setup? what did u spend if u dont mind me asking?
i know tuning is key thats why i brought my T/A to Eastside Perf. cause they specialize in tuning Ls1's......i wish there was a Honda tuner closer to me....
I spent $400 on the tune... expect the p28 and chipping to run at least 200. (If I hadn't gotten a deal on mine I would have looked to for a p05/06 on ebay and taken it to a tuner for p28 conversion, chipping, and tuning).

The gains are worth the money in my opinion, I enjoy the car more now. at www.eCtune.com they tell where the tuners are. Hondata and others may be good too, I have no experience with them.
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Old 09-11-2008, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_y82 View Post
I spent $400 on the tune... expect the p28 and chipping to run at least 200. (If I hadn't gotten a deal on mine I would have looked to for a p05/06 on ebay and taken it to a tuner for p28 conversion, chipping, and tuning).

The gains are worth the money in my opinion, I enjoy the car more now. at www.eCtune.com they tell where the tuners are. Hondata and others may be good too, I have no experience with them.
thanks, im gonna look into this.....i dont need the whole explanation but whats the main diff between a P28 and a P13?

is the p28 more tuneable than the p13?

and our cars are OBD1 right ?

i did some reading on that site in the tech section but it didnt say why p28 is better?

also i was looking at my car just now, what is the smaller black plastic box mounted on the plate next to my ecu?....it also has a section of the harness going into it as well

what the hell is that?
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Last edited by twokexlv6coupe; 09-11-2008 at 04:32 PM. Reason: dub post
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Old 09-11-2008, 04:33 PM
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Re: Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilBird View Post
thanks, im gonna look into this.....i dont need the whole explanation but whats the main diff between a P28 and a P13?

is the p28 more tuneable than the p13?

and our cars are OBD1 right ?

i did some reading on that site in the tech section but it didnt say why p28 is better?

also i was looking at my car just now, what is the smaller black plastic box mounted on the plate next to my ecu?....it also has a section of the harness going into it as well

what the hell is that?

92-95's, OBD1.
96's and up, OBD2.


lil black box next to ECU is your rad fan module
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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 09-11-2008, 05:05 PM
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Re: Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

okay thanks,
my rad fan didnt even work i got a toggle switch to turn it on right now

about the ECU's, im guessing the p28 allows tuning and the p13 alows only a chip? i still dont know?
but i found this on Phearable.net

What Honda ecus are chipable?:
Only a few select type of obd1 92-95 honda/acura engine computers are chipable to use with popular engine management softwares.
USDM Vtec: P28, P72, P61 JDM Vtec: p30, p72, p08, p27, pr3, p91
USDM Non-Vtec: P75, PR4, P05, P06
Some obd0 honda/acura ecus are chipable but these ecus are not compatible with nicer eprom editors, hence we do not support obd0 ecus.
Obd1 ecus will plug & play into 92-95 honda/acuras, while pre-92 & 96-01 vehicles will require a ecu plug conversion harness to use the ecu (sold separately).
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Last edited by EvilBird; 09-11-2008 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 09-11-2008, 06:13 PM
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Re: Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

Quote:
Originally Posted by twokexlv6coupe View Post
230hp to the crank or wheels?
i love using this quote, especially since you'll understand it:
"modding a honda isn't like modding an LS1, where you can clean out the ash-tray and gain 40hp"
Hahahaha, that quote is amazing.

Needs moAr compression!
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Old 09-11-2008, 08:55 PM
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Re: Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubbs. View Post
Hahahaha, that quote is amazing.

Needs moAr compression!


there's no replacement for displacement...



oh wait yea there is. BOOST!!!!
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2005 Stage2.5+ Subaru WRB STi : RzKar!
Ivey Tuned - Advan - Cobb - Rallispec - CP - Perrin - ACT - KillerB - Carillo - TurboXS - Defi - Innovate - Walbro - DeatschWerks - Feal - H&R - Alpine - Infiniti - Curt

2001 Kawasaki STX1100 D.I. - Sold!
2007 Sea-Doo RXT 215; ET 127 +3 S/C impeller, DIY 3" intake, DIY resonator delete/free flow exhaust, DIY oil catch can, Rule 500gph bilge pump


Quote:
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But you need that scoop on the hood. Is it true that they're big enough to fit your lunch box and all your camera gear in it?
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Old 09-11-2008, 09:40 PM
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Re: Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilBird View Post
about the ECU's, im guessing the p28 allows tuning and the p13 alows only a chip? i still dont know?
Yea, the p13 is not tunable (I think hondata may be adding or did add support for it... check their website... you can get the generic chips, but I would not risk my h22a on one...

The p28 lets them give you completely customized maps and all that jazz... I have never used a controller like the apexi neo, some people seem to love them, but if I was going to pay for time on the dyno anyway I wanted a real ECU, not just a piggyback type unit.
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Old 09-13-2008, 03:14 PM
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Re: Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_y82 View Post
Yea, the p13 is not tunable (I think hondata may be adding or did add support for it... check their website... you can get the generic chips, but I would not risk my h22a on one...

The p28 lets them give you completely customized maps and all that jazz... I have never used a controller like the apexi neo, some people seem to love them, but if I was going to pay for time on the dyno anyway I wanted a real ECU, not just a piggyback type unit.
thanks bro, im finally gettin this
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Old 09-13-2008, 03:22 PM
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Re: Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

2000 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am..6 speed, Dart heads, Cartek Stage 2x cam, Longtubes, TSP y-pipe with high flow cats,LS6 intake mani, 80mm BBK TB, 42lb f.a.s.t injectors, custom tune by ESP= 421 RWHP and 398 RWTQ

I bet that think is nasty (in a good way).

that's quite a few nice rides there.

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Old 08-27-2009, 05:25 AM
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Icon5 Re: Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_y82 View Post
He stole my post. No matter what mods you get you need to ditch the "spoon chip" even if it is a spoon program... I/H/E doesn't require it, but I picked up significant power over the p13 with a chipped p28... the torque through the powerband is amazing compared to stock... I'm on eCtune, but hondata, chrome, neptune, etc can accomplish a similar end... you've gotta get on the dyno though man; I would post a link (with dynocharts and video of my tune), but I wouldn't want to some across as "advertising"... go to my members ride page and you will find dyno charts and/or a link to my chipped p28 in my list of mods.

how come you cant go from n/a to f/i i thought all the more air flow would help with the f/i?
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Old 08-27-2009, 09:22 AM
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Re: Single most important H22 mod? cams/intake mani?

where did u get ur chipped p13 from?
i ordered a chipped p13 from ebay and actually got a p28 with a different EPROM chip in it.
The p13 has different computer coding than the p28 does, so the p28 is the more desirable ecu used by tuners.



Cams will be a good, just don't go with a "stage 3" without increasing the compression. Ur already running a 10.6:1 CR. It can go higher if u wish, but u will need new pistons. U could shave the head and/or block to gain some compression, but u can only go so far.

A high end header will be crucial in making some power. U could have $3k in parts in the motor, but if u use a crappy header, u won't see its full potential.

The stock fuel rail, and ignition are good for past 300hp. Depending how much ur doin, u may want bigger injectors.

My advice to u, is just poke around and check out other ppls builds and upgrades and stuff. And see how their setup works/worked.




A knowledgable tune is gonna be the most important addition to ur setup.

All the different programs <CROME>, ECTune, NepTune, etc....all get burned onto an EEPROM chip that will plug into the socket in the ECU.
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