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Old 06-09-2008, 12:08 AM
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oil for car

hey i was just wonding what the best oil for a 94 si would be cuz i have not sure
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Old 06-09-2008, 07:47 AM
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how many miles, does it currently use any? How long do you want the engine to last? Is there a swap in the future? turbo? any plans?

I am using royal purple 5w30 in my h22 swap, but mobile 1 synthetic is cheaper.

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Old 06-09-2008, 09:01 AM
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I use valvoline conventional 10w-40.

Go read this thread
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Old 06-09-2008, 01:38 PM
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10w30 in the winter you may want to go down one if it gets real cold wear you live.
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Old 06-09-2008, 02:49 PM
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why would u use 10w-30...when the cap specifically calls for 5w-30 idk bout yall but i use Castrol GTX with sludge protection 5w-30
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Old 06-09-2008, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PreludeBoy95' View Post
why would u use 10w-30...when the cap specifically calls for 5w-30 idk bout yall but i use Castrol GTX with sludge protection 5w-30
2 reasons one it being the summer and it being a 94 im guessing has a good bit of miles on it thicker oil will be better for both.
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Old 06-09-2008, 09:48 PM
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question? what cap says use 5w30?



The H22 and H23 specifically call for 10w30 and you should never run 5w30! I honestly believe 5w30 is the demise of about 30% of h23's.

The tolerances in the motor really need you to run a minimum of a 10w oil...
Check the Helms manual! Or, trust the guy whos been playing with the H22 and H23 for more than 8 years.
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Old 06-09-2008, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilbluelude View Post
question? what cap says use 5w30?



The H22 and H23 specifically call for 10w30 and you should never run 5w30! I honestly believe 5w30 is the demise of about 30% of h23's.

The tolerances in the motor really need you to run a minimum of a 10w oil...
Check the Helms manual! Or, trust the guy whos been playing with the H22 and H23 for more than 8 years.
have you ever read the oil section of the Honda Prelude user manual that came with your car? it says use 5w-30 OR 10w-30 depending on the temperature. I run 5w30 in my hondas year round. At the moment I'm using Castrol GTX high mileage. The H22 may recommend 10w30 to reduce oil burnoff when in vtec though.

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Old 06-10-2008, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PreludeBoy95' View Post
why would u use 10w-30...when the cap specifically calls for 5w-30 idk bout yall but i use Castrol GTX with sludge protection 5w-30
The cap does specifically call for 5w-30... however 10w-40/30 is better for when it gets blisteringly hot outside...

Go check the thread that I referred to a couple posts back... it explains it in great detail.
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Old 06-10-2008, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilbluelude View Post
question? what cap says use 5w30?



The H22 and H23 specifically call for 10w30 and you should never run 5w30! I honestly believe 5w30 is the demise of about 30% of h23's.

The tolerances in the motor really need you to run a minimum of a 10w oil...
Check the Helms manual! Or, trust the guy whos been playing with the H22 and H23 for more than 8 years.

Yeah man... I don't know about the 4th gen h22 helms manual, but the 5th gen helms manual definitely calls for 5w-30... I just did a clutch job on my car and i followed the book to the T... except for that... i used 10w-40
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Old 06-10-2008, 10:18 AM
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Sorry for the triple post here... but read this since no one seems to want to go to the thread i referenced....

Viscosity and Viscosity Index (VI).
The proper viscosity is the single most important criteria of a lubricating oil. The basic performance of machinery is based on the viscosity of the lubricant. Viscosity is, if you like, the resistance to the flowability of the oil. The thicker an oil, the higher its viscosity. The chart below shows a rough guide to ambient temperatures vs oil viscosity performance in both multigrade (top half) and single grade (lower half) oils.
Multigrade oils work by having a polymer added to a light base oil which prevents the oil from thinning too much as it warms up. At low temperatures, the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as it's low number (W number) indicates. As the oil heats up, the polymers unwind into long chains which prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100°C, the oil has thinned only as much as it's higher rating. Think of it like this: a 10W30 oil is a 10-weight oil that will not thin more than a 30-weight oil when it gets hot.
The viscosity index of a lubricant is an empirical formula that allows the change in viscosity in the presence of heat to be calculated. This tells the user how much the oil will thin when it is subjected to heat. The higher the viscosity index, the less an oil will thin at a specified temperature. Multi-viscosity motor oils will have a viscosity index well over 100, while single viscosity motor oils and most industrial oils will have a VI of about 100 or less.


Viscosity and oil weight numbers is quite a nauseatingly detailed topic. So if you're curious about why a 15W50 oil is so-called, then put on the geek shield and pop over to the Viscosity Page..... [/QUOTE]
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Old 06-10-2008, 03:12 PM
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ok well i am using chevron 10w-40 and i have the h23 in my car no a swap and i am not planning on a swap or turbo any time soon but if you think i should use something else plz tell
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Old 06-10-2008, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadMofo View Post
Sorry for the triple post here... but read this since no one seems to want to go to the thread i referenced....

The proper viscosity is the single most important criteria of a lubricating oil. The basic performance of machinery is based on the viscosity of the lubricant. Viscosity is, if you like, the resistance to the flowability of the oil. The thicker an oil, the higher its viscosity. The chart below shows a rough guide to ambient temperatures vs oil viscosity performance in both multigrade (top half) and single grade (lower half) oils.
Multigrade oils work by having a polymer added to a light base oil which prevents the oil from thinning too much as it warms up. At low temperatures, the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as it's low number (W number) indicates. As the oil heats up, the polymers unwind into long chains which prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100°C, the oil has thinned only as much as it's higher rating. Think of it like this: a 10W30 oil is a 10-weight oil that will not thin more than a 30-weight oil when it gets hot.
The viscosity index of a lubricant is an empirical formula that allows the change in viscosity in the presence of heat to be calculated. This tells the user how much the oil will thin when it is subjected to heat. The higher the viscosity index, the less an oil will thin at a specified temperature. Multi-viscosity motor oils will have a viscosity index well over 100, while single viscosity motor oils and most industrial oils will have a VI of about 100 or less.


Viscosity and oil weight numbers is quite a nauseatingly detailed topic. So if you're curious about why a 15W50 oil is so-called, then put on the geek shield and pop over to the Viscosity Page.....
[/QUOTE]

I read the page, and I actually learned some things.

but if 5w30 or 10w30 will not get thinner than 30 weight when they are hot what is the difference between using them in the heat? that i still do not understand.
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Old 06-10-2008, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hojemwod View Post

I read the page, and I actually learned some things.

but if 5w30 or 10w30 will not get thinner than 30 weight when they are hot what is the difference between using them in the heat? that i still do not understand.
then why would you argue with me if you dont understand the differences? Thats like argueing wih a neurosurgeon over the best way to remove part of your skull for a brain operation.

Whats the most important time to have oil on the bearings and throughout the motor? Startup anyone... A 10w oil does much better at lubricating the H series in general on a cold startup than any 5w oil. Cold startup, well thats only when its 20 degrees outside right? Wrong again Brain surgeon... Operating temperature for a motor and oil is well above the a temperature that will burn your skin. Viscosity is key for keeping parts well lubricated until the oil has reached the optimal temperature range... With the clearances in your H series motor, bearings, rings, and other seals do much better with the slightly thicker oil to bridge that gap.

For the brain surgeons at home who want to learn something by doing. Go buy a quart of oil or even one of 5w30 and one of 10w30 if you like. Pour some into some bowls and stir each with a spoon. Theres a noticable difference of how easily the spoon will plow through the oil. Try heating both containers up 50 degrees F and repeat this silly experiment. The viscosity should noticably change and the spoon should cut through it like water now instead of butter. Imagine what it will do at 200 degrees F....
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Old 06-11-2008, 12:41 AM
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haha damn you ripped into him lol nice and thanks for the info
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Old 06-11-2008, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by lilbluelude View Post
then why would you argue with me if you dont understand the differences? Thats like argueing wih a neurosurgeon over the best way to remove part of your skull for a brain operation.

Whats the most important time to have oil on the bearings and throughout the motor? Startup anyone... A 10w oil does much better at lubricating the H series in general on a cold startup than any 5w oil. Cold startup, well thats only when its 20 degrees outside right? Wrong again Brain surgeon... Operating temperature for a motor and oil is well above the a temperature that will burn your skin. Viscosity is key for keeping parts well lubricated until the oil has reached the optimal temperature range... With the clearances in your H series motor, bearings, rings, and other seals do much better with the slightly thicker oil to bridge that gap.

For the brain surgeons at home who want to learn something by doing. Go buy a quart of oil or even one of 5w30 and one of 10w30 if you like. Pour some into some bowls and stir each with a spoon. Theres a noticable difference of how easily the spoon will plow through the oil. Try heating both containers up 50 degrees F and repeat this silly experiment. The viscosity should noticably change and the spoon should cut through it like water now instead of butter. Imagine what it will do at 200 degrees F....
jesus christ. I argue because of what the Prelude manual says; not what I think. Just because I dont understand the difference doesnt make the Prelude manual wrong. no silly experiments are necessary.

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Old 06-11-2008, 03:35 PM
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Let's bring this back to a more civil tone guys. lilbluelude you obviously know what you are talking about and everyone who's been on here for a while knows that. Your car is a beast and you obviously have learned a lot from experience...

HOWEVER, you don't need to sh!t on people so much. Your tone comes off as very ignorant and you have had problems with that in the past on here... I seem to remember a time when your rep was in the negative and your posts were deleted at an alarming rate... That's not because of your intelligence, it's because of your ignorance...

If you want to sh!t on people and call people names, you should head on over to a different forum... they are indifferent to rudeness... PZ is not.

We help people here who are less knowledgable than us... we don't flaunt as superior beings and make everyone else feel inferior... This forum is much more geared towards "beginners" and "novices", and we should all try to exhibit as much patience as possible...

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Old 06-11-2008, 05:00 PM
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^x2 he wasn't arguing with you he asked a question. 5w is better for a cold cranking b/c it is thinner then the 10w with mean better oil flow when you first start the engine more so in winter when it's a lot colder.
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Old 06-11-2008, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadMofo View Post
Let's bring this back to a more civil tone guys. lilbluelude you obviously know what you are talking about and everyone who's been on here for a while knows that. Your car is a beast and you obviously have learned a lot from experience...

HOWEVER, you don't need to sh!t on people so much. Your tone comes off as very ignorant and you have had problems with that in the past on here... I seem to remember a time when your rep was in the negative and your posts were deleted at an alarming rate... That's not because of your intelligence, it's because of your ignorance...

If you want to sh!t on people and call people names, you should head on over to a different forum... they are indifferent to rudeness... PZ is not.

We help people here who are less knowledgable than us... we don't flaunt as superior beings and make everyone else feel inferior... This forum is much more geared towards "beginners" and "novices", and we should all try to exhibit as much patience as possible...
While I appreciate your candor, I find it mildly amusing how absurd of a notion it is to assume certain things. The negative rep I got was caused by a game I was playing with E along with a fight I got into with another member. The time period when most posts were being deleted at an alarming rate was 5 posts ago and Im not sure it ever has stopped. Every forum needs its asshole, you guys encourage me to play the role on occasion. The other times, sorry... I'm just an asshole.

Did I call anyone any names here in this thread or in any thread you can find? I may be a douche for calling you out on it, but I doubt you will find me personally calling anyone(aside from myself) any names at all. The brain surgeon comment is a joke that goes along with the opening sentence of my cleverly portrayed analogy.

I'll stop here with this because its honestly very OT from the original post and anything further would be more appropriately done through PM's.




Now, to go back on topic.

30 weight oil is great for the H series and just about any Honda. 40 weight works pretty good and I couldnt complain if you run it either.

Heres the thing thats confusing everyone. Its that number in front of the w in _w30 oil. The 5, 10, or whatever represents the viscosity of the oil when cold. Look up viscosity in the dictionary if the term escapes you. Yes, temperature has an affect on the 'thickness' (if you will) of the oil. 5w oil is equivalent to 10w at about a 30 degree F difference. I didnt calculate or test this, so dont quote me on it exactly but its a pretty good reference point. Thats the primary reason you see all of these charts stating information with temperatures listed. Good information for winter time in Canada.

Now, its reasonable to assume a thicker oil will coat and fill gaps a little easier than a thinner oil. So, why not just run a 30w oil period? Well, the 30w oil is so thick when cold that its more like pudding(analogy, ok..) than water. Honda's run a tight clearance everywhere and its very important to have proper lubrication to keep from overheating(thus scarring or warping)parts and create a barrier to keep from grinding parts together. A really thick oil cannot properly lubricate these important parts considering its not going to flow well enough to continually lubricate parts when cold.


When should you run a 5w oil over a 10w oil in your H series motor? When its extremely cold outside. If you live in an environment thats guaranteed to be below 20 degrees F every morning, or reasonably close. At these temperatures the 5w oil is considerably thicker than a on a 60 degree day and reasonable to properly lubricate the key parts of the motor and stay in those areas while still cold. The 30w oil takes over once warm anyways at a very similar consistency to that of the cold 5w or 10w oil.


So... Why do I say run a 10w30 oil? As stated before, startup is the most important time to have proper lubrication. Its when things can go wrong most easily and the time when most wear (natural and unatural) occurs on metal contacting parts. Now, a 10w oil fits the bill best during startup for most conditions. From temperatures 10 degrees F to 150 degrees F 10w oil fills gaps perfectly, flows adequately while still remaining 'sticky' enough to maintain great contact with moving parts, and remains on key parts better during the cooldown process because of its 'consistency'(this matters for the next startup). This thicker oil also has one added benefit of not seeping through the rings as much at startup causing oil loss and excessive oil burnup in the combustion chamber. In my moderate GA climate I wouldnt consideranything other than a 10w ever for anything available in a prelude, even if the manual says otherwise on the 5th gen.

My question for you all after reading and learning is:

Why cant you engage in VTEC until your motor has reached operating temperature?(just in case, I do know the answer)
If you figure this out, explain why a 10w30 oil is no different than a 5w30 oil in VTEC... (it was improperly stated in this thread and no one said anything)
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:00 AM
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ok thanks guys for the info and you make me laugh to
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:49 AM
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Damn I need some popcorn and this thread on Cd so I can have some on else read it to me lol. btw I use royal purple and lover the stuff. I used to use val max life but after using that purple stuff I take my oil cap off and it looks brand new in there (it used to be kind darker brown now its gold in color)

btw 2000 post woot woot
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Old 06-12-2008, 12:58 AM
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royal purple where can i buy some of that at i think that is what my friend uses in his rsx type-s
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Old 06-12-2008, 01:24 AM
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royal purple is THE BEST but it cost about 7 buck a QT i used to get it for $2 but my friend don't work at AZ no more.
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Old 06-12-2008, 08:55 AM
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o ok but if it is the best i think i might switch over to it next oil change
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Old 06-13-2008, 10:25 AM
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While I appreciate your candor, I find it mildly amusing how absurd of a notion it is to assume certain things. The negative rep I got was caused by a game I was playing with E along with a fight I got into with another member. The time period when most posts were being deleted at an alarming rate was 5 posts ago and Im not sure it ever has stopped. Every forum needs its asshole, you guys encourage me to play the role on occasion. The other times, sorry... I'm just an asshole.

Did I call anyone any names here in this thread or in any thread you can find? I may be a douche for calling you out on it, but I doubt you will find me personally calling anyone(aside from myself) any names at all. The brain surgeon comment is a joke that goes along with the opening sentence of my cleverly portrayed analogy.

I'll stop here with this because its honestly very OT from the original post and anything further would be more appropriately done through PM's.




Now, to go back on topic.

30 weight oil is great for the H series and just about any Honda. 40 weight works pretty good and I couldnt complain if you run it either.

Heres the thing thats confusing everyone. Its that number in front of the w in _w30 oil. The 5, 10, or whatever represents the viscosity of the oil when cold. Look up viscosity in the dictionary if the term escapes you. Yes, temperature has an affect on the 'thickness' (if you will) of the oil. 5w oil is equivalent to 10w at about a 30 degree F difference. I didnt calculate or test this, so dont quote me on it exactly but its a pretty good reference point. Thats the primary reason you see all of these charts stating information with temperatures listed. Good information for winter time in Canada.

Now, its reasonable to assume a thicker oil will coat and fill gaps a little easier than a thinner oil. So, why not just run a 30w oil period? Well, the 30w oil is so thick when cold that its more like pudding(analogy, ok..) than water. Honda's run a tight clearance everywhere and its very important to have proper lubrication to keep from overheating(thus scarring or warping)parts and create a barrier to keep from grinding parts together. A really thick oil cannot properly lubricate these important parts considering its not going to flow well enough to continually lubricate parts when cold.


When should you run a 5w oil over a 10w oil in your H series motor? When its extremely cold outside. If you live in an environment thats guaranteed to be below 20 degrees F every morning, or reasonably close. At these temperatures the 5w oil is considerably thicker than a on a 60 degree day and reasonable to properly lubricate the key parts of the motor and stay in those areas while still cold. The 30w oil takes over once warm anyways at a very similar consistency to that of the cold 5w or 10w oil.


So... Why do I say run a 10w30 oil? As stated before, startup is the most important time to have proper lubrication. Its when things can go wrong most easily and the time when most wear (natural and unatural) occurs on metal contacting parts. Now, a 10w oil fits the bill best during startup for most conditions. From temperatures 10 degrees F to 150 degrees F 10w oil fills gaps perfectly, flows adequately while still remaining 'sticky' enough to maintain great contact with moving parts, and remains on key parts better during the cooldown process because of its 'consistency'(this matters for the next startup). This thicker oil also has one added benefit of not seeping through the rings as much at startup causing oil loss and excessive oil burnup in the combustion chamber. In my moderate GA climate I wouldnt consideranything other than a 10w ever for anything available in a prelude, even if the manual says otherwise on the 5th gen.

My question for you all after reading and learning is:

Why cant you engage in VTEC until your motor has reached operating temperature?(just in case, I do know the answer)
If you figure this out, explain why a 10w30 oil is no different than a 5w30 oil in VTEC... (it was improperly stated in this thread and no one said anything)
Now that is a quality, helpful post.

I don't take offense to you "calling me" on anything, especially since the name calling I was referring to was, indeed, the brain surgeon comment... I will gladly take back the name-calling statement since that is the only instance of it I can think of, and it's honestly not important enough to me to go searching through your previous posts to prove you wrong. Proving you wrong/belittling you was never my goal in the first place, I simply wanted to point out that your caustic tone with people is sometimes mildly offensive... especially when someone asks an innocent question and you feel the need to shred them and make sarcastic statements about their intelligence.

I know I may not be a mod here, but I like to think that I am pretty highly respected on here, and I try to do my part in helping to keep the tone of this place civil and helpful. I'm simply trying to push everyone on here (not just you) to be a productive, helpful member of our community, and try their best to abstain from all the vitriolic, horsesh*t posts.

tl;dr Great post, post like that more frequently.

edit: Also, I'm giving you positive rep for the helpful post...
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Old 06-13-2008, 01:05 PM
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I use 10W-30 year round.
Also since my engine is getting on up in mileage, I use dino Quaker State, and works surprisingly well. I might start using high-mileage oil soon.
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