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I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

 
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Old 09-17-2015, 08:23 PM
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I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

Please read before judging by my title because I know everyone thinks their projects are special. I own a 1989 Prelude Si 2WS with a B20 and 5 speed trans. I bought an H22A to swap into it once I build it up. I am building the H22A for around 650hp at the crank. I know plenty of people have H22 swapped 3rd gen ludes, that's not what I need help with. I am very interested in converting to AWD using the transmission out of a CR-V or I heard of some rare JDM transmission that is AWD and will bolt right up to an H or F series engine. I don't know how many other people have tried or thought about this but I am very serious about actually doing the fab work necessary if it is achievable. I do know that if I did an H22A AWD swap into a 3rd gen Prelude I would probably be one of the first to do so. I want to have more than the front wheels to deliver power to the ground because I want to make this a sleeper, streetable car. I just want to know if anyone who's been working with Frankenstein type builds like this has any ideas to make this happen without me having to chop up my car too much as it is my daily driver currently. Please help me out guys!
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Old 09-17-2015, 08:30 PM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

So you wanna keep it as a daily while doing this?
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welcome to site Carl
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Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
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I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

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Old 09-17-2015, 11:34 PM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

As best as I can yeah. I'm 17 so I don't really have the money for multiple cars. I just planned on being careful and going slow and taking a lot of measurements to ensure an easier fitment. Does this sound like a legitimate thing that is achievable?
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Old 09-18-2015, 01:06 AM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

you need another car
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Old 09-18-2015, 10:03 AM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

Ok I was afraid of that. I can get another Si out here for like $500. What about converting to AWD?
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Old 09-18-2015, 10:12 AM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

It can be done.
But it's gonna cost ya.

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welcome to site Carl
...is a golden car fax kinda like a golden ticket? Sure hope willy wonka didn't put any snozberries in your motor.
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Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
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I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

God's Not Dead
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Old 09-18-2015, 10:58 AM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

17 years old? Have your parents bought off on this idea? This isn't something that you're going to be able to do in a weekend. I've seen too many of these types of projects drag on for months or even years. Are you doing this in your folks' garage? I can tell you from experience when my son did a 20 valve engine swap into his MR2 that your parents will quickly tire of seeing that mess in their garage or driveway.

This is a huge project, and will take lots of time and money to complete. You need to do a lot of research, and acquire everything that you will need before you start. Taking measurements is great, but all the measurements in the world won't help you if you haven't done the research and figured out how to do this before you start any of the actual work. We've seen too many of these types of projects started and not finished. I would hate to see another one.
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Old 09-18-2015, 01:04 PM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

^^ this

Before you turn the first screw, you need to know you have the budget to take on any project.

I once bought a car and engine separate. Turned out the engine was no good. I bought a wrecked with a good engine. Motor did not fit.
No money left, the car sat until the money tree re-sprouted. A year later the forces of nature had worked hard on my future hot rod.
Now I needed to fix the chassis too. 6 months later I watched it drive off...on a flatbed on the way to a junkyard....after squandering about $2000 (1988) on it...ie about $5k these days.

Then there are other things like tools, like local junk car nazis, like what will you drive while you do this....like a million billion other things that'll pop up as you progress.
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Originally Posted by ogsmakdade View Post
welcome to site Carl
...is a golden car fax kinda like a golden ticket? Sure hope willy wonka didn't put any snozberries in your motor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elspectro29 View Post
Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

God's Not Dead

Last edited by bykfixer; 09-18-2015 at 01:08 PM.
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Old 09-18-2015, 01:26 PM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

I have a space to do my work that won't be imposing on anyone I already thought of that. I bought the H22A already disassembled so I know it's good. I've been doing research but as what I want to do hasn't been attempted before (as far as I can tell from looking for someone who has done it), I can't find the information I need. I figured posting something would help me more. Yes I'm 17, however I own an asphalt company and two lines of graphic apparel set to launch in a couple months. I have no problem taking my time with this project as I want to do it right and with high quality parts, work, etc. the first step in the build is buying another Prelude which will be fairly simple. I need to know about transmissions I could bolt up to an H22A that would give me AWD capabilities in this car. The H22 swap is hard enough without adding this amount of fab work into it but I am determined to try it because my car would be truly one of a kind and a beastly daily.
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Old 09-19-2015, 12:53 AM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

I am really curious of the transmission and what year it is.Late 90's or early 2000's. To be all wheel drive, Don't you need a rear type axle? What is that coming out of? I doubt that CR-V axle will bolt up to
a Lude. Hope you have a welder. And maybe some money! Really , There are Preludes out there without 4wd and very fast. The engine work like turbo stuff makes them fast but a 4wd stock H-22 won't be as fast but will be different. Depends on if you want speed or for showing a slower car off. It's like telling people. "I have a slow Model T from the 1920's but it's 4wd."

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Old 09-19-2015, 02:08 AM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

I really despise these types of threads...

Instead of a hypothetical and let's discuss.... We get "I want to do a custom one off build, please tell me how".



Do some R&D, have plenty of money, and plenty of skill.... This will take you a while
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Old 09-19-2015, 02:21 AM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

I'm always open to discussion for the person that said the don't like my post. I won't pretend like I know everything because I don't and I'm reaching out to people who know more than I do. It's not going to be a stock H22 I'm twin turbocharging it. I will have money as I own several of my own businesses. Likely 20k to 30k at my disposal this coming summer. No bull****. I have full access to all the tools, welders, shop space, etc that I will ever need. I "rent" out a space from a guy in return that I buy him beer haha. Money will be no object and I really want to make this happen. A 600whp AWD 3rd Gen Prelude Si
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Old 09-19-2015, 02:23 AM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

I've been trying to research but I'm getting in over my head because I've never attempted something like this before. Enough people swap H22's into 3rd gen ludes, but swapping an H22 and making it AWD? Practically unheard of and I want to try it.
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Old 09-19-2015, 05:43 AM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

Gingerluder. You just said you have a welding machine at your disposal but do you know how to weld? I myself was thinking about putting a GM ls engine in a 3rd Lude till I found out there's no room for a transmission. Hope you have better luck welding a rear axle to the frame! Yes I have plenty of money too.
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Old 09-19-2015, 10:34 AM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

I used to own and operate a dotcom when I was your age. There's still no way I could have afforded to build a toy like that, even skill-wise. There is only one person I've ever met so far who had those skills at your age and he currently is building one of my vehicles for me (an old 4x4 truck with a diesel swap). He's also now 19 and full-time employed as a diesel mechanic with an associates degree in diesel engine tech.

I am now almost 32 and have built many vehicles myself in the realm of the dollar amount you're talking about and I think you're suffering from a big case of ignorance in what's involved. It all looks good on the web or on paper, but like others say, many of us have had or know of project vehicles that sit for months, if not years. The aforementioned one (4x4) had sat for almost 2 years while I did the little stuff and collected all the parts, etc. Things that have to be custom machined or fabricated take time and you also have to know how to specify and/or create the specs/drawings that make up these components. Even if you find a reasonably-priced and quality-focused fabricator, you still have to understand how to communicate with them.

I don't think anyone is trying to bash you here, they're just being honest and speaking from experience. I know I am! Know your limits; we all have them. Sure, you could be some fascinatingly bright individual with a solid foundation in doing this stuff AND even have all the tools, but you would certainly be the exception to the rule IMHO. Just my .02...
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Old 09-19-2015, 11:01 AM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

This is why I want to start gaining knowledge I need now over the winter. My asphalt company doesn't do much during the winter so my cash flow is short atm. However once the summer comes I will be making easily 10k-15k a month. I want to get off the topic of the finances I have to accomplish this because I WILL have them. I'm again, not pretending like I know everything by any means and that's why I'm asking for help with this build. I have access to resources that most people don't and I want to make use of them. I know a little about welding yeah, but I can ask my dad's boss to show me more any day and he would. He's the one giving me access to the shop space and the tools. (He owns an excavation company) people have told me something I already know, I need money, time, tools, more money, a second car, and more time. Just because of my age doesn't mean I don't know what kind of an effort this will take to accomplish and I'm not afraid of any dollar amount or work effort that will be required. Can we please stop focusing on money because I can take care of that fairly easily. Thank you for your continuing input!
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Old 09-19-2015, 11:15 AM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

Awful lot of assumptions there, my friend! As a business consultant involved in the running of companies that have big profits, I can tell you it is absolutely a big mistake to assume you will have solid income at a certain future point. You must recognize the possibilities for things turning out otherwise and be able to cope with that.

It sounds to me like you are just like many of us were at your age... You're probably bright and you do know a little bit about a little bit, but there's just so much you don't know. You can't assume that you'll be competent enough to do things like serious welds with some instruction from a friend; things like that are dangerous assumptions! I personally don't do any structural welds on anything that is of any safety concern AT ALL. My neighbor is an industrial welder for a construction company and he has both the tools and the 50+ years of knowledge that I do not. I am a decent arc and MIG welder who has both educational experience in welding and a host of training from people who actually do know what they're doing, but I will always bow to a professional for something critical. This is the type of mindset you're going to need to get through a project like this if you're actually going to accomplish it at your age: lose the assumptions and be willing to give the difficult stuff to a professional, because the truth is you're not ready for those things yet. Watch and observe, learn and digest, but you can't assume these things you're so quick to assume because that's where your downfall is going to be.

So, so far we've got from those who have done it all before:
-Buy a second car
-Assemble large pile of cash, preferrably double what you *think* it will cost
-Have access to real tools
-Do a ton of research, both beforehand and during
-Have all of the professionals you'll need lined up beforehand and be willing to pay them

If you can do all of that, you're going to be fine.
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Old 09-19-2015, 11:38 AM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

Yes I do have access to welders and I know a little about using them. All I have to do is ask my dad's boss to teach me more and he will. He's the one whose tools, space, etc I am allowed to use. 've always caught on quickly to these kinds of things. Can we please stop focusing on the money required because I am well aware this is an expensive project and I have the resources available to complete it. I own an asphalt/sealcoating company, it doesn't bring in any income during the winter, however during the summer I am set to make 10k-15k a month so please let's stop dwelling on the money. I am looking for knowledge and not by any means pretending I know everything about this. That's the reason I posted this thread. I am attending Warren Tech for automotive technology (the best high school auto program in the world arguably) and I learn more and more every week. I am perfectly fine accepting I don't have all the answers and I'm just looking for help because I don't know everything I need to in order to make this idea a reality.
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Old 09-19-2015, 11:39 AM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

Sorry I responded twice the page was messed up for me...
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Old 09-19-2015, 11:47 AM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

And I definitely would go to professional help for anything involving important welding because it's not something I want to **** up and have to pay for once the car is done. I know all projects always cost more than anticipated, which I have accounted for by giving myself time and having patience. I have been researching all over forums and reading in my school books trying to figure things out. But no book can beat talking to people with experience. I am here to learn and discuss unlike most people on here my age who just want to prove how much they know and show off. I guess a good question is what advantages will AWD give me besides the obvious? For the horsepower I will be making at the wheels (about 600-650), I just don't know if an '89 Lude can deliver that to the ground with just the front wheels without me having no traction and a **** ton of torque steer all the time.
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Old 09-19-2015, 12:52 PM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

Awd h22 has been done i a 5th. I recommend a different engine as it will sit too high in a 3rd gen.

Use the drivetrain and heart from an awd honda wagon
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Old 09-19-2015, 01:03 PM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

^^ this


Money galore, aye? Early on you said you didn't have money for multiple cars, right?

Well now that money seems to be falling from the sky....
A Larry Widmer B20 dart block with B18 head would be a good start. He'll do ya one for about $20 grand, and I'm sure somebody out there will gladly help you chop up a wrx to fabricate onto a prelude chassis.

Heck, one guy succesfully did a twin engine 5g for a school project. Another guy is doing a Corvette 5g Prelude frankenstein.
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Originally Posted by ogsmakdade View Post
welcome to site Carl
...is a golden car fax kinda like a golden ticket? Sure hope willy wonka didn't put any snozberries in your motor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elspectro29 View Post
Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

God's Not Dead

Last edited by bykfixer; 09-19-2015 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 09-19-2015, 01:58 PM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

Yes I wasn't clear enough at first I'm sorry. I don't have money to spare right now as my business is pretty much done for the summer because of the cold weather. Sealcoating can't be done in colder weather. I am looking for things I can research now and put together now. I know that the H22 will sit higher in the 3rd gen chassis but I chose it because I'm familiar with it and I'm having custom mounts made to solve the clearance issues. I realize this will be one hell of a fab project but I want to see if it's achievable without getting into mashing tons of different cars together. I now about the twin engine AWD 5th gen prelude it's pretty sick!
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Old 09-19-2015, 02:01 PM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

I don't want someone else to build an engine for me. Anyone can get someone else to build a car for them. Part of being an enthusiast is me doing as much as I can myself. I'm looking for knowledge so let's please stop questioning the money. I will have that in order and the process for this will help me determine how much money I will need roughly.
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Old 09-19-2015, 07:42 PM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

It's obvious that no one who has replied, or regularly replies in this forum has done something like this. I like your enthusiasm for this project, but it's easy to get excited about doing something like this until the actual work begins. Report back in a year after you've started this project. I think you're going to have a really hard time finding a drivetrain that will bolt up to the h22. What about going with a drivetrain/engine from a Mazda 323 GTX turbo 4wd (if you can find one)...
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...%204wd%20turbo

wing8806...there is no way a wagovan drivetrain will hold up to the kind of power that he's looking for. I think that drivetrain would be good to start with for proof of concept, but I don't believe it will hold up to any kind of real power increase.
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Last edited by luzer; 09-19-2015 at 07:54 PM.
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Old 09-19-2015, 08:06 PM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

Thank you for actual input and not just telling me I better have a couple stacks to throw at it. What about something out of like an Acura? Or for now should we discuss how to fit all this engine in the car without considering the AWD yet? Two turbos, the piping, header, intercooler, and H22 will probably be hard enough to fit. These cars have big engine bays, for what kind of cars they are, there's plenty of space around the B20 that's currently in it. But maybe AWD just isn't possible with the H22 because of space limitation? I could swap an engine and tranny out of a CR-V because they're both variations of the B20, but I already bought the H22 and had it sleeved. I went with the H22 originally because it's just beefier than the B20 all around and they handle boost well when sleeved. A B18 is ideal but they're really hard to get into 3rd gens from what I researched prior to buying the H22.
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Old 09-19-2015, 09:02 PM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

Holy **** this could be a lot easier than I anticipated. I was searching things that were too complicated I should have just typed "AWD H22" into google the whole time. Can we discuss what parts I should buy in addition to this kit?

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Old 09-19-2015, 09:52 PM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

Keep in mind that this kit isn't made for a 3rd gen Prelude. It's made for Civics and Integras, which don't have the same engine lean as we do. You still won't be able to use a 3rd gen Prelude transmission because of this. So you'll have to use a Civic or Integra transmission, and work out the mount for that. Also, this kit has nothing to do with 4wd/awd. I don't see how you'll be able to get 4wd with any transverse mounted engine.
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Old 09-20-2015, 01:38 AM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

Yeah I still had that in mind but I didn't even know something like this existed. How hard could it be to get it to fit in a Prelude chassis with some custom mounts? That's practically all they did. And isn't the CR-V transversely mounted but it still has AWD?
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Old 09-20-2015, 10:19 AM
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Re: I Have A Very Special Type Of Project I Need Help And Ideas

Be aware that the B20A in the 3d gen Prelude and the B20B/B20Z in the CR-V are completely different engines. The block size and architecture is completely different. I don't know if that makes installation harder or easier...just pointing it out to eliminate the assumption they're related engines.
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