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1989 Honda Prelude knocking

 
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Old 07-09-2015, 03:17 PM
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1989 Honda Prelude knocking

I just recently had the following replaced:
  • Head gasket
  • water pump
  • timing belt
  • radiator
  • alternator
  • spark plugs, wires, cap, rotor

After this work was done I have noticed a knocking sound.

The specific things I have noted in regards to the knocking are. 1. When accelerating it goes away 2. When braking it goes away 3. Stopped at idle it goes away 4. If I rev it at idle in park it is not there as it revs up and down 5. It happens when moving while coasting prior to braking if that makes any sense.
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Old 07-09-2015, 05:16 PM
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Re: 1989 Honda Prelude knocking

So, you only hear it when the car is moving and not accelerating or braking. Can you verify that it's coming from the engine itself? Or at least from the front of the car?

Sounds like it could be that the rubber in one of your engine/transmissin mounts is worn out and the metal parts are knocking around or possibly the whole motor mount itself is loose. The driver side motor mount by the cruise control has to come off in order to swap the timing belt so maybe the mechanic didn't tighten those bolts back up (enough). Check them out. I think they are a 14mm or 15mm and you will need a long extension for that rear bolt. Also check the cross bolt that goes through the mount. It's like 4-5 inches long and I believe that it also is a 14mm or 15mm.

Now, it could also be a CV joint rattling when there is no load but the car is moving... Do your CV's "pop" when you are turning left or turning right? That would be a sure sign that they are the culprit.

Let us know what you find.
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Old 07-09-2015, 05:31 PM
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Re: 1989 Honda Prelude knocking

Are the lug nuts tight on the left front wheel? You have to remove this wheel when doing the timing belt, and maybe they lug nuts are not torqued enough.
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Old 07-09-2015, 05:36 PM
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Re: 1989 Honda Prelude knocking

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Originally Posted by luzer View Post
Are the lug nuts tight on the left front wheel? You have to remove this wheel when doing the timing belt, and maybe they lug nuts are not torqued enough.
^^Good Point^^

I didn't think about that one.
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Old 07-09-2015, 06:21 PM
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Re: 1989 Honda Prelude knocking

The top center motor mount bolt is missing. I am going to pick one up and see if that is the issue.

Do you know the exact size of that bolt?

Thanks.

Last edited by vdk; 07-09-2015 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 07-10-2015, 10:10 AM
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Re: 1989 Honda Prelude knocking

Which bolt is missing? There are three or four of them. I'm assuming you mean the bolt that inserts horizontally and attaches to two sections of the motor mount. If I still had my 3rd gen I'd take it out and measure it for you. Maybe someone else here is willing to do that for you.
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Last edited by luzer; 07-10-2015 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 07-10-2015, 11:52 AM
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Re: 1989 Honda Prelude knocking

Quote:
Originally Posted by vdk View Post
The top center motor mount bolt is missing. I am going to pick one up and see if that is the issue.

Do you know the exact size of that bolt?

Thanks.
If ANY of them are missing and they were there before, I'd DEFINITELY get "in touch" with the mechanic who did the work...

Way too many times have I had to go back and tighten or replace missing or stripped hardware... Almost lost the upper control arm of my Suburban one time because a mechanic did an alignment and "tightened it as best as he could"... With that said...

You may want to check out all the OTHER bolts associated with the timing belt change... Who knows if anything else is loose ot missing.

Ok, back on subject...

Below is a diagram of the motor mounts and associated hardware (Far right side of the image) and also put the link to one of the Honda Parts sites. The link has the part numbers and measurements. Looks like they are discontinued but you may find a place that has them if you search. A good hardware store may have some suitable replacements, but be sure to get the correct hardness of bolt. I am pretty sure those will be at least a 10.9 if not a 12.9, which is harder to find.

McMaster-Carr has all kinds of bolts and may be your best bet in finding a replacement if the mechanic doesn't still have it. There are also other online hardware warehouses you can search as well. Anyways...


Here's a diagram of what you are looking for:



And here's where I found that image:

Honda Automotive Parts

Parts 1, 22, 23, 26, 27, 33, 34, & 35 are the Nuts, Bolts, and Washers for that engine mount.

The thread size and bolt length are on the page of the link above.

Hope this helps.
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1970 Buick GSX Clone - In progress
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"Tackling Those Gremlins One By One"

"If you were as smart as you are dumb, you'd be Einstein!"

"Keep The Shiny Side Up & The Dirty Side Down"

Last edited by tonemeister69; 07-10-2015 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 07-11-2015, 02:15 AM
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Re: 1989 Honda Prelude knocking

You guys are great. It was the large through bolt that attaches the motor mount to the frame. When that was replaced the knocking stopped.

I dont know what I would do without these forums....

Current issue is rough idle and poor acceleration. It seems to hit a wall at 3k RPM. This problem did not exist prior to the head gasket/timing belt replacement.

I had another compression test done from a certified Honda service tech (showed me a certificate for what that is worth) and he found compression numbers:

#1 - 185
#2 - 190
#3 - 110
#4 - 175

This was done wet with car warmed up. He says the valves may not have been properly adjusted causing #3 to be low. Can a poor valve adjustment cause such a big difference? New valve seals and guides were done, head was machined, and a straight edge showed the block was not warped. Valves did not appear to be burnt or bent as far as the previous mechanic was concerned.

I was thinking of having him do a leak-down test although I dont want to just keep throwing money at it unnecessarily.

I just like to be an informed consumer and try not to get ripped off over and over....

Thanks for the help.
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Old 07-11-2015, 09:01 AM
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Re: 1989 Honda Prelude knocking

I was on board with the loose lug nuts....

Mal-adjusted valves can cause all kinds of issues. If the same shop didn't put back a motor mount through bolt that did the head work, the guy may have forgotten #3 as well.

Or at the risk of getting Luzer stirred up, re-using the old bolts may be a factor...that's a case where I woulda reused the old bolts too. But sometimes they just won't stay tight. But if that's the case I'd guess it was the threads at issue in the head, insert a heli-coil and re-tap that sucker...re-using the old bolt.
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I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

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Last edited by bykfixer; 07-11-2015 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 07-11-2015, 12:57 PM
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Re: 1989 Honda Prelude knocking

Yes, incorrect valve lash adjustment can affect compression. But I would expect the numbers to be even lower than what you have if that was the case. It's worth checking the valves on #3 since it doesn't cost anything to do that. Make sure the engine completely cooled down before adjusting valves.

A leak-down test would be a good idea if the valve adjustment doesn't change anything. Just out of curiosity, what were the dry compression numbers?

Mike, you certainly know which buttons to push to get me riled up LOL. I can't say that it's not possible for a head bolt to stretch, but it's not common on these engines. I would be more likely to suspect that maybe the threads on either the bolts or the block were not clean, or the bolts were not correctly oiled before re-installation. It could be as simple as re-torquing the head bolts to fix this. Of course, it's not really a simple thing to do.
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Old 07-11-2015, 01:42 PM
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Re: 1989 Honda Prelude knocking

^^ exactly.

But I've had bolts on the alluminum head strip the alluminum before I'd even reached 'tight'...example was re-fastening the thermostat housing...one was getting near snug and just simply quit resisting. It was one of things I just said to myself in a Tim the tool man Taylor voice "uhhhh?" Had twisted it to finger tight, turned wrench like 5 times and...Doh! Threads stripped.
Had the same issue bolting a tranny to an H22 last year.
That's why I brought up the threads in the head may be an issue.

Not likely though imo.
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Originally Posted by ogsmakdade View Post
welcome to site Carl
...is a golden car fax kinda like a golden ticket? Sure hope willy wonka didn't put any snozberries in your motor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elspectro29 View Post
Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindso View Post
I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

God's Not Dead
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Old 07-11-2015, 11:15 PM
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Re: 1989 Honda Prelude knocking

I've replaced my rear motor mount twice. Everytime you accelerate, It puts all the torque on the rear mount. Did you rock the engine fwd and aft to confirm the mounts are good?
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Old 07-13-2015, 02:41 PM
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Re: 1989 Honda Prelude knocking

I want to stress what Luzer said about the engine being cold when you check/adjust the valves. Do it first thing in the morning before you even put the key in the ignition.
  • FIRST THINGS FIRST... If you haven't already, Located a manual on how to do this. It will take you step by step on what to do because you will need to turn the engine & cams to inspect / check / adjust the lifters.

  • I'd first do a visual check. Compare the movement of each Intake Valves & Lifters and compare it to that of #3. It could possibly tell you right off if there is an issue. Make sure all the parts are there and that they are in the proper place. A loose lifter can make the keepers of the valve pop out. (Let me know if I need to post a pic of the keeper)

  • Be sure your feeler gauge is clean because debris between the gauges or the lifter and cam can give you a false reading.

  • Have a bottle of fresh oil handy so you can oil the feeler gauge, lifter, and cam lobes. Because by the morning, all the oil will have dripped off of them and they will be dry. This will make it harder to "gauge" how tight is the correct tightness.
  • Make sure that your combo wrench is in GOOD shape as well as the Allen wrench so you can make sure you have them nice and tight when you are done and that you don't strip any of the adjustment nuts or bolts. You'll hate yourself if you do. I believe that the nut is a 6 point/side so try to use a 6 point box wrench to loosen and tighten those nuts.

That's what I experienced when I replaced my head and having that Manual was a life-saver.
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Old 07-13-2015, 03:13 PM
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Re: 1989 Honda Prelude knocking

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonemeister69 View Post
[*]Make sure that your combo wrench is in GOOD shape as well as the Allen wrench so you can make sure you have them nice and tight when you are done and that you don't strip any of the adjustment nuts or bolts. You'll hate yourself if you do. I believe that the nut is a 6 point/side so try to use a 6 point box wrench to loosen and tighten those nuts.[/LIST]
That's what I experienced when I replaced my head and having that Manual was a life-saver.
What allen wrench Tony? It takes a 12mm wrench and a flat screwdriver to adjust the valves, along with feeler gauges of course. I have a special tool for adjusting valves, which I got from Amazon. It combines the wrench and screwdriver into one tool. Slick. Here's a link if anyone is interested...
Amazon.com: Schley Products SCH88800 12mm Jam Nut Valve Adjustment Tool: Automotive
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Old 07-13-2015, 03:31 PM
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Re: 1989 Honda Prelude knocking

Quote:
Originally Posted by luzer View Post
What allen wrench Tony? It takes a 12mm wrench and a flat screwdriver to adjust the valves, along with feeler gauges of course. I have a special tool for adjusting valves, which I got from Amazon. It combines the wrench and screwdriver into one tool. Slick. Here's a link if anyone is interested...
Amazon.com: Schley Products SCH88800 12mm Jam Nut Valve Adjustment Tool: Automotive
(Open Mouth, Insert Foot)

Ugh... Don't know why I remember an Allen Wrench...

Yeah, it's a flat tip screwdriver like Luzer said... But see, If you get the Manual... You'll know that!

And thanks for that link... I think I know what my next purchase will be!

And I found one for half the price of what the other one costs:

http://www.amazon.com/Alltrade-64882...djustment+tool
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Old 07-13-2015, 03:59 PM
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Re: 1989 Honda Prelude knocking

Nice find tony. I didn't pay attention to the price in the link I posted, sorry. I paid a lot less for mine when I bought it. I was mainly just trying to post a picture of it. $20 shipped is a lot more reasonable than $45.
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Old 07-13-2015, 04:09 PM
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Re: 1989 Honda Prelude knocking

It's kool... I wasn't trying to "One-Up" you or anything... I am a bargain shopper by nature so I usually shop around to see if I can find something cheaper... And if I find a deal, I like to share it. :D

I found one of those tools for $14 with free shipping but it was only in the 10mm size and not the 12mm. Going to keep my eyes open in the meantime...
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Old 07-13-2015, 05:30 PM
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Re: 1989 Honda Prelude knocking

No problem, I'm glad you posted the link. I would hate to have someone spend $45 on the one I posted.
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