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91 Si Won't start..help?

 
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Old 10-15-2014, 04:08 PM
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91 Si Won't start..help?

Hey guys, Im new here and am looking for some help. I just got a 91 Prelude 2.1 Si that was sitting for a couple of months. Everything seemed fine, no misses smooth ride and passed smog. Only thing was that occasionally in like hot weather (I live in vegas)it wouldn't start and I couldn't hear the fuel pump engage/"whistle". so I thought it was the fuel pump. so far ive replaced the pump, plugs, wires, cap, rotor and fuel filter, AND the battery. she still wont start but now I hear the pump engaging at least. Ive read it could be the main relay so I took it out. How do I know its bad???? I need help. this was supposed to be my daily driver.
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Old 10-15-2014, 04:33 PM
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Re: 91 Si Won't start..help?

Classic symptoms of a main relay problem. You can try re-soldering the connections on the pc board. It helps if you have soldering skills. Here is a write-up on how to do that...

Main Relay Fix

Or you can replace it. The chances are very good that your problem is with the main relay. It's a very common problem.
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Old 10-15-2014, 05:08 PM
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Re: 91 Si Won't start..help?

^^Yeah, I agree with this diagnosis. I had the same issue, and I resoldered mine and haven't had an issue since. I didn't take pictures of my Main Relay Fix, but I did of my Speedometer fix, which had the same issue. So...

This is a circuit card for the back of my 89 Speedometer, but you will be looking for this same symptom. It's called a "Fractured Solder Joint". You can see the dark line around the pin that is sticking up throught the Circuit card. (Just Inside the red circle)



Make sure you get the solder hot enough to flow all the way throught the hole, and adding a little solder to reflow it will help a lot!
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Old 10-15-2014, 06:46 PM
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Re: 91 Si Won't start..help?

Just to clarify what Tony said above, you won't always be able to see if the joint is bad. It's better just to touch all of the solder joints to make sure.
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Old 10-15-2014, 10:05 PM
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Re: 91 Si Won't start..help?

Yeah, he's right I forgot to mention that it's not always that apparent... Thanks for getting my back Mike!
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Old 10-16-2014, 10:13 PM
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Re: 91 Si Won't start..help?

replaced the relay....still no start :/
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:56 PM
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Re: 91 Si Won't start..help?

So Sorry! Didn't mean to leave you hanging... Been a busy busy past couple of days...

Ok, Here's what you need to do without spending any more money, except maybe a deposit for the test equipment, which you'll get back when you return the Equipment.

You need 4 basic things for a car to run: Fuel, Air, Spark, & Compression.

Unless the Air Filter is 100% clogged, you are getting air, so let's mark that off the list. The next easiest thing to check is the Fuel delivery.

Do you have an AutoZone near you? Or any other Auto parts store that loans tools? If so, borrow their Fuel pressure Test Tool. It screws into the top of your Fuel Filter that is on the passenger side firewall. Hook it up and turn on the key. There is a air bleed button (Or should be) on the side of the gauge where the clear bleed line comes off. You will need a jar or can to collect the gas that will come out of that hose so it doesn't get on your car. Turn the key on, the pump should run for a second to prime the pressure, and then you push the button to bleed the air. Turn the key off and back on and push the button again. You will do this a few times, until you get a somewhat airless squirt from the gauge. After the last purge, turn the car off and back on and try to turn it over. You should get a fuel pressure reading of 35-41. If not, you have a fuel pressure issue, if you do get that reading, let it sit a few minutes to see if it bleeds down. Not sure how long it would take for the pressure to bleed down, if it ever would. I don't believe there are any 1 way valves in the fuel line, just the residual pressure on the fuel pump.

Here is a diagram of where you will connect the Fuel Pressure Tester to:



If it doesn't bleed down, then move to the injectors. Don't disconnect the Fuel Pressure Tester yet.

You will need a test light. If you don't have one, buy one. they are pretty cheap and VERY handy for the rest of what you will have to fix in the future! LOL! It will pay for itself, seriously.

Ok, you should still have pressure on the gauge, if not, then turn off the key and back on again. If you didn't remove the Fuel tester, then you only need to do this once. Now, connect one end of your test light to ground. You should be able to use the ground on the front driver side Valve cover.

BTW... When I did this test, I stood on the driver side because it seemed easier to me.

You are going to locate the Injector Connectors that are just behind and down from the back of the valve cover. The Injectors have a constant 12 VDC applied to them and the PGM-FI grounds each one to open the injector when it is time. So there are 2 wires/pins on each injector. I believe that the pin/wire on the driver side is the +12VDC so the other one is Ground.

NOTE: Don't hold the probe (pointy end) onto the wires too long, just a quick touch and then let go. You just want to hear the injector “click”

What you are going to do is touch the probe (Pointy end) of the test light to the pin closest to you and see if it lights up. If it does, then that is the 12VDC. If the injector "clicks", then that is the ground wire. The pressure should drop when the injector opens. If you don’t hear a click, then the injector is probably stuck closed. (Or open, but that would cause a flooding issue in that cylinder. You will need to turn the key off and back on each time you click the injector.
Try that and let us know what you find out. We can further diagnose it from there.
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Old 10-22-2014, 05:32 AM
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Re: 91 Si Won't start..help?

Main relay because the car is 25+ years old. Just get a new one and be done with it.

Unless you are comfortable with resoldering the circuit board, which soldering does not alwasy fix it and you will need a new one anyways.
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Old 10-22-2014, 10:01 AM
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Re: 91 Si Won't start..help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsPlagues View Post
replaced the relay....still no start :/
Did you replace it with a new relay, or was it a used one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1funryd View Post
Main relay because the car is 25+ years old. Just get a new one and be done with it.

Unless you are comfortable with resoldering the circuit board, which soldering does not alwasy fix it and you will need a new one anyways.
OP said they replaced the relay Sean, just above Mike's post.
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Old 10-22-2014, 03:20 PM
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Re: 91 Si Won't start..help?

Yeah, resoldering the Pins on the Circuit Board only works if bad solder joints are the problem. There are contacts inside the Relay that get carbon all on them from sparking everytime you crank the car and lose conductivity little by little until they no longer make contact. I didn't see a way to clean them when I resoldered the pins, but I wasn't wanting to take it too far apart, being the first time opening up the Relay.
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Old 10-22-2014, 03:42 PM
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Re: 91 Si Won't start..help?

Ignitor perhaps?
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Old 10-22-2014, 04:42 PM
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Re: 91 Si Won't start..help?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
Ignitor perhaps?
Could be. although normal symptoms for a bad ignitor are that engine will start, but will not stay running for very long. Then it won't restart until it sits for a while. But at this point it's kind of a guess. The OP needs to do some basic troubleshooting and find out if it has fuel, spark, and compression. It sounds like the problem evolved, since it started out with the fuel pump not running, to where now the fuel pump does run but the engine still will not start.
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Old 11-10-2014, 01:03 PM
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Re: 91 Si Won't start..help?

Were you able to get your car fixed?
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