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32MPG? I Don't See How...

 
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Old 08-01-2014, 11:04 AM
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32MPG? I Don't See How...

I have read through a few threads on here to see what kind of gas mileage you guys are getting in your 3rd Gens and I found a lot of people that are saying they get 32 MPG. I just filled up for the 3rd time after a rebuild and I am getting solid 23 MPG so I wonder what is wrong.

Just to set the stage... I have an 89 Si with a B20A engine & D2J3 transmission. I drive 35 miles one way (70 per day) with very little traffic and I keep my speed between 65 & 70 and stay pretty constant and no jack-rabbit starts or anything like that... (Still babying it until I know nothing else is wrong) Hell, I put the car in neutral and coast to the lights and down the one bridge I cross each day.

The engine has 71K miles on it and the head is a remanufactured unit. I put new plugs, wires, cap & rotor AND new distributor. (I only replaced that cause my Tachometer is inaccurate and sometimes it just doesn't work, but of course that didn't fix the issue) New air filter, fuel filter, oil & oil filter. I cleaned all of the carbon buildup out the intake and put new gaskets. It also has 4 new Fuel Injectors as well. I adjusted all the lifters according the the "Prelude Bible" while the engine was completely cold and TRIPLE CHECKED each and every one for tolerance. I have my timing set right at 15°BTDC and its steady.

The ECU isn't showing any codes but I am wondering that maybe the O2 sensors are throwing my fuel mixture off and I may be running rich. (Is it possible for them to be "OFF" and not throw a code?)

Aside from that, what can be robbing me of 9MPG??
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Old 08-01-2014, 11:59 AM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

Have you ever been diagnosed with dyslexia?
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Old 08-01-2014, 12:11 PM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

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Have you ever been diagnosed with dyslexia?
LMFAO!! I NEVER expected THAT answer!!

Good One! Maybe I can just look at my results in the mirror!?
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Old 08-01-2014, 02:18 PM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

Once you're in the 65-70 mph range, Your gas mileage gets cut down cause now you're in the 32-3500 rpm range. The more rpm's means more gas. Sorry. Doing 45 mph in final drive is different where you'd get 32 mph. A manual will give a little better mileage of course.
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Old 08-01-2014, 02:35 PM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

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Originally Posted by Lespaul59 View Post
Once you're in the 65-70 mph range, Your gas mileage gets cut down cause now you're in the 32-3500 rpm range. The more rpm's means more gas. Sorry. Doing 45 mph in final drive is different where you'd get 32 mph. A manual will give a little better mileage of course.
That makes sense... I was under the assumption that the statements of getting 32 MPG was during "Normal Highway Driving" not 45 MPH Farm-To-Market road trips... I guess those people getting 32 MPG on the highway are driving downhill both ways with a tail wind...

I did a little research and found this website that will calculate your economy loss by going over "55".

Mpg For Speed - Fuel Efficiency Vs. Speed (And no, this isn't an advertisement for anything... )

There is also the option to look up our cars stated economy, which is 20 City, 26 MPG Highway, and 22 MPG Combined. This is the link for you to see for yourself:

Fuel Economy of 1989 Honda Prelude

So I guess me getting 23 MPG at (let's say) 70 MPH is just about right. Guess I'll check my tire pressure and do some experiments with the timing to see if I can squeeze another few MPG out of her!

I wonder if the Stock spoiler and Sunroof deflector I added are culprits...
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Old 08-01-2014, 03:38 PM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

Speed limit was 55 when these cars were new.

Try going say, 60-62 and you should see big gains. At 55 you're in the way of the average motorist but you'll go a lot further on a tank of fuel.

Also use good gas like BP or Shell and not junk gas that's only maybe a buck or two less per tank full.
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Old 08-01-2014, 04:32 PM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

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Try going say, 60-62 and you should see big gains.
Will do...

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Also use good gas like BP or Shell and not junk gas that's only maybe a buck or two less per tank full.
I hear you on that... I usually fill up at the Shell station right by my house cause it's actually just a couple cents more per gallon than the "cheapie" places in the area and I'd spend the savings going out of my way to save those couple of cents. But since you mentioned it, I had filled up at the Kroger (Grocery Store) the 3 times that I put gas in this car (and got these 23 MPG readings from). I can't attest where / who Kroger gets their gasoline from.

This morning I put in just over 10 gallons at the Shell so after this run, I'll repost my MPG to see if anything changes. After I get a couple tanks of Shell through, I may try the 89 octane, although its $0.50 more a gallon than the 87...
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Old 08-01-2014, 06:23 PM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

Doing 600km on a full tank. I'm driving 60-70km/h on my 15 min way to work.
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Old 08-01-2014, 07:26 PM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

I have an 89 with a b20a and d2j3 manual trans, just like you. My engine has just over 100k miles (estimated). I don't know the mileage for sure, but the seller assured me the engine had less than 60k miles on it when I bought it. I average just over 30 mpg locally with about 90% highway miles. Average highway speed is about 60 mph. But I use ethanol free gas (91 octane). Keep in mind that most gasoline now contains 10% ethanol, which gives you a small decrease in mpg.
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Old 08-01-2014, 07:56 PM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

In va if you find ethanol free it's at harbors and places like that and they charge like $5/gallon vs $3.25 +/- 50¢…
Used to be could could find ethanol free in 'the country' but no longer there either.

My car would probably have a nervous breakdown Luzer without ethanol to keep it running $h1tty.

Think of it this way tonemeister...you run 60, everybody's passing you, right? But right many are thinking "man that sure is a cool car".
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Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

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Old 08-01-2014, 09:10 PM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

Yess! Cruising in the nice car!
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Old 08-01-2014, 09:23 PM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

Yeah, I've read that there aren't many places with ethanol free readily available. My local CFN station has it, and so does the one near my work. So I don't have any problems finding it. It's definitely more expensive, but since my lude isn't my daily driver anymore I don't mind paying extra for it.
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Old 08-01-2014, 09:29 PM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

I have the JDM B20A in mine and runs perfect with the 93 octane. Switching to 87 octane made it run like a turd but it did run. You can defenitely feel the compression difference with a JDM higher compression engine with 93 octane. If I was strapped for cash then Yes I would go for the 87 octane and deal with it. Done it a few times that's how I know that the performance is different.
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Old 08-04-2014, 12:27 PM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

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I average just over 30 mpg locally with about 90% highway miles. Average highway speed is about 60 mph. But I use ethanol free gas (91 octane). Keep in mind that most gasoline now contains 10% ethanol, which gives you a small decrease in mpg.
Where do you have your timing set with the 91?

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Think of it this way tonemeister...you run 60, everybody's passing you, right? But right many are thinking "man that sure is a cool car".
Yeah, I tried driving "60 MPH" this morning but I just couldn't do it... Seems my car likes the 70 MPH range better... On the OTHER hand... If I go too fast, they can't see my kool wheels!

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Originally Posted by Lespaul59 View Post
I have the JDM B20A in mine and runs perfect with the 93 octane. Switching to 87 octane made it run like a turd but it did run. You can definitely feel the compression difference with a JDM higher compression engine with 93 octane.
Where do you have your timing set with the 93?
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Old 08-04-2014, 12:43 PM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

I forgot to add...As far as being "strapped for cash" (regarding my fuel expenses)... I have been driving am 87 Suburban to and from work for the past year and it only gets 13 MPG on 87 octane... So at 23 MPG on 87 octane, I am spending about HALF of what I was! If adjusting my timing and switching to a higher grade will increase my MPG, then I'm game! That is... As long as the higher grades don't cost twice as much!

I'm sure it'd probably give me better performance as well... at least i'd hope so...
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Old 08-04-2014, 02:07 PM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

Fuel these days aren't what they used to be.The high octanes burn very fast so you're gonna want your timing closer to TDC than normal. 87 octane burns much slower so you're gonna want your timing further away from TDC . I keep my 91 right in the middle with 93 octane but if I switched to 87 I'd put it on lower notch of the 3 to give it time enough to completely burn.
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Old 08-04-2014, 02:08 PM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

I have my timing right at 15°BTDC... Which is where the manuals say to put it... Is that too low?
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Old 08-04-2014, 02:26 PM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

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Originally Posted by Lespaul59 View Post
...The high octanes burn very fast so you're gonna want your timing closer to TDC than normal. 87 octane burns much slower...
I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one... Low octanes burn faster and high ones burn slower. Here's proof from a reliable source:

https://mn.gov/commerce/weights-and-...ctaneFacts.pdf

Use of higher octane gas delays the ignition of the air/fuel mixture to compensate for the "advancement" of the timing.
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Old 08-04-2014, 06:20 PM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

I have my timing set to 17° btdc.
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Old 08-04-2014, 07:18 PM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

Got to thinking about this thread today when commuting. Had to slam on brakes in my work truck and all kinds of stuff re-arranged itself as a result.

Anyway the typical motorist carries stuff. Say your laptop is 4 pounds, a back pack with stuff like ps 3 or whatever, 5 lbs. Roller blades 5 pounds. Quart of oil 2 pounds each. Gallon of coolant 8 pounds. If you go bowling a ball is minimum 12 pounds...and it goes from there.
So clean out the clutter, wax your car with great wax for slipstream, add a pound of air per tire for less rolling resistance, run between half and quarter tank or something along those lines and see how that helps.

If I cleaned out my work truck of the couple hundred pounds of stuff my mileage could nearly double
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Old 08-05-2014, 10:07 AM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

My car is pretty much clutter free... I have a spare tire, my windshield reflector, and a cup holder I added and that's about it.

I DO need to wash and wax my car so i'll probably do that this weekend.

On the tire pressure, I will have to check to see how much I am running. I usually run about 1-2 psi lower than the stated max pressure and I think mine say 45 PSI max, but don't hold me to that as I am going off of what I think I remember seeing on the sidewall.

And as far as gas goes, technically, any "extra" gas that you carry is dead weight. If we all wanted to get better gas mileage, we should only carry enough gas to get us to our destination and the next gas station. THEN add just enough gas to get back to our point of origin. Gas is like 6 lbs per gallon so if you are carrying 15 gallons, that's an extra 90 lbs... You can lose up to 2% of your gas mileage for every 100 lbs extra you carry.
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Old 08-05-2014, 07:26 PM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

We all know that the less gas you have, The more vapor above it is, Which cools and condenses overnight back to water. If I lived in Phoenix I really wouldn't care but in the South where there's a lot of humidity.........Yes gas is heavy.Do our fuel filters filter water? I keep my tire pressure at 30 psi.
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Old 08-05-2014, 09:48 PM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

No, we don't have water separators in our fuel filters.

Gas vapors don't condense into water. But water vapor can enter the fuel tank anytime the cap is off. The higher the humidity the more that can enter the tank. Carb'd engines are more susceptible to this than fuel injected engines because the fuel system is sealed. If you suspect that you have water in your fuel tank, just pick up some Heet fuel system dryer...
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...ngJavascript=1
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Old 08-05-2014, 10:05 PM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

^^ check out the big brain on Breeeeet!
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I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

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Old 08-06-2014, 06:37 AM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

What I'm saying is that when your gas gets low, The vent on your cap allows air in for it to breathe. The air that comes in is very humid and that's where the water comes from.
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Old 08-06-2014, 09:30 AM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

^^ good to know.
Question...how in the world can one go about re-activating that vacuum breaker you speak of?
I have known of and have experienced a no start issue, where you open the cap, hear a roaring for a few seconds and after that car starts up fine...
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welcome to site Carl
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Only seen the first one, 15 years ago in theaters. Plan on keeping it that way. Get off my lawn.
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I remember my first thread, asking what a noise was when I got going 110mph.
Pretty much got flamed for driving like a jackass and was told to slow down. And I'll be damned, slowing down fixed it.

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Old 08-06-2014, 09:51 AM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

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Originally Posted by Lespaul59 View Post
What I'm saying is that when your gas gets low, The vent on your cap allows air in for it to breathe. The air that comes in is very humid and that's where the water comes from.
Actually it doesn't, at least on fuel injected models. We have a closed fuel system, which means there is no vent on the gas cap. The fuel tank is pressurized, so there is no need for a vent. Haven't you ever noticed the pressure releasing when you remove the gas cap?
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:45 AM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

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Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
Question...how in the world can one go about re-activating that vacuum breaker you speak of?

I have known of and have experienced a no start issue, where you open the cap, hear a roaring for a few seconds and after that car starts up fine...
YES! I had that same thing happen to me last week! I was driving and the car started acting like it was starving for fuel. I was pretty sure I still had gas, but not 100% sure cause my gas gauge doesn't work so I pulled into the next gas station to be sure. MAN! When I opened up the gas cap, this huge vortex opened up and I thought I was going to get sucked in! It must have sucked air in for at least 10 seconds... No lie! I went ahead and topped off and after that, It ran fine... Until today. I am down to about 1/3 tank (based on my MPG & miles driven so maybe its time to open the gas cap.

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Originally Posted by luzer View Post
We have a closed fuel system, which means there is no vent on the gas cap. The fuel tank is pressurized, so there is no need for a vent. Haven't you ever noticed the pressure releasing when you remove the gas cap?
Mine sucks air every time I open it... NOT purges air... And what pressurizes the gas tank? Is there a pump? Cause if so, I don't think mine is working.
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:53 AM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

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Originally Posted by luzer View Post
We have a closed fuel system, which means there is no vent on the gas cap.
The gas caps that AZ and the "O" sell state otherwise.


Part Number: 6810
Weight: 0.2 lbs
Notes: Standard
Color / Finish: Chrome
Filler Cap Attachment: Quick-On
Filler Cap Design: Vented
Filler Cap Material: Metal, Plastic, Rubber
Filler Cap Type: OE Replacement
Filler Neck Diameter (in): 1.504
Lockable: No
OEM Replacement: Yes

MasterPro® Select Caps - Fuel Cap
Part Number: 6810
Line: MCS
1 Year Limited Warranty
UPC: 799304068105
Standard Non-Locking Fuel Cap
Standard Non-Locking
Fuel Cap Venting: Vented
Locking: No

Not trying to prove anyone wrong... So please don't think i'm calling anyone out...
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Old 08-06-2014, 11:57 AM
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Re: 32MPG? I Don't See How...

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Originally Posted by luzer View Post
Actually it doesn't, at least on fuel injected models. We have a closed fuel system, which means there is no vent on the gas cap. The fuel tank is pressurized, so there is no need for a vent. Haven't you ever noticed the pressure releasing when you remove the gas cap?


The fuel TANK is NOT pressurized! If it were, I would've been blown to bits every single time I've taken the fuel pump cover off every one of my cars. And I'm pretty sure I haven't died 6 times yet. What is pressurized is the fuel lines from the fuel PUMP to the injectors.

So that's not pressure RELEASING from the tank. That's the vacuum that's created from when the gas level drops creating a void/vacuum, than when you remove the gas cap that vacuum is SUCKING air into the tank.
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