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Rod knock??

 
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:06 PM
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Icon5 Rod knock??

i just picked up a 1991 prelude si with 4 wheel steer. the car has 152xxx miles on it. the guy said the harmonic balencer broke and he drove it like that for a week, then he replaced it.. he also said that since the harmonic balencer broke that it jarred the cams out of adjustment and thats what is making the sound, but i belive its a rod knock. it has no noise at idle but if you rev it it has a chadder, but if you hold the rpms steady it doesnt make the noise? so im confused can anyone help?? it has the b21a1 dohc any info will help thanks.
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:31 PM
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Re: Rod knock??

Are you sure you're not confusing a rod-knock to a noisy valvetrain?

you'd certainly hear a connecting rod or bearing, knocking around in the block lol...compare your sound to the countless vids on youtube...
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:44 PM
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Icon9 Re: Rod knock??

well im pretty sure its the connecting rod, sounds like the crank shaft on the far right cylinder is chaddering bad... where should i go from here? this is my first honda so i dont know if i should just buy a new motor or what? where can i get a new motor or good prices on parts??
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:47 PM
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Re: Rod knock??

im uploading a video now, ill post the link below. the sound isnt the best but you can hear the chadder :/
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Old 03-26-2012, 07:47 PM
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Re: Rod knock??

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Originally Posted by Hamblin28 View Post
...he also said that since the harmonic balencer broke that it jarred the cams out of adjustment and thats what is making the sound.
If the cams were that far out of alignment, the car would run like crap, or not at all, because the valve timing would be way off.

What little I've heard of rod knock makes a pretty alarming sound. If it's just clattering a bit, adjust the valves and see if that helps.
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Old 03-26-2012, 08:01 PM
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Re: Rod knock??


this is the video of my car, idk if its the valves or what..
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Old 03-26-2012, 08:06 PM
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Re: Rod knock??

it only makes a chadder/knock when you rev it so im not sure what to think be cause if you hold a rev it stops or quiets down alot but if you rev up and down it does it..
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Old 03-26-2012, 09:37 PM
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Re: Rod knock??

I hear no rod knock...i hear noisy valvetrain and i hear a b21 lol...

when was the last time it had a tuneup? spark plugs, wires?


a better question is, how does the car drive? obviously it has to drive fine for you to actually buy it right?
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Old 03-26-2012, 09:54 PM
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Re: Rod knock??

sounds like valves to me also my h22a had realy bad valve noise when I bought it and sounded very similar.
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Old 03-27-2012, 04:49 AM
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Re: Rod knock??

it drives fine, spark plugs and wires need changed, but it had a full tune up at 100k now its at 152k so its due for another one. if anything ill just do a tune up and drive it till it blows. where can i get a good running b21a1? or what is a easy and low cost motor swap like h22 or a b18?
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:45 AM
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Re: Rod knock??

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Originally Posted by Hamblin28 View Post
it drives fine, spark plugs and wires need changed, but it had a full tune up at 100k now its at 152k so its due for another one. if anything ill just do a tune up and drive it till it blows. where can i get a good running b21a1? or what is a easy and low cost motor swap like h22 or a b18?
just do a valve lash adjustment. or pay a mechanic to do it, its not difficult and it will help your car out a ton. and why would you just drive it till it blows? its a honda engine it will last a long time if maintained.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:20 AM
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Re: Rod knock??

Ill pay a mechanic to do it just cause I really don't know much about Honda's, I'm a rotary Guy I mostly do rx7s but couldn't pas up this good deal. If the valve adjustment doesn't help Ill probably just swap the b21a1 out and a h22 or b18 in.. how hard and or expensive is it to swap to a different motor??
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:58 AM
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Re: Rod knock??

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Originally Posted by Hamblin28 View Post
it drives fine, spark plugs and wires need changed, but it had a full tune up at 100k now its at 152k so its due for another one. if anything ill just do a tune up and drive it till it blows. where can i get a good running b21a1? or what is a easy and low cost motor swap like h22 or a b18?
Please search for this information. Look at the 3rd gen resource guide, in my sig and as a sticky in this forum.

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Old 03-27-2012, 10:25 AM
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Re: Rod knock??

The sound quality in that video is terrible. You were holding the camera too close and all I hear is distortion when you rev it. What I can hear of it doesn't sound like a bad rod bearing though. If you're willing to take it to a shop for the valve lash adjustment, just take it in and have them listen to it. Anyone who has ever heard an engine with bad rod bearings will be able to tell you if that's what you're hearing.

H22 swap will cost you a lot. The easiest would be to swap another 3rd gen engine (b20a5 or JDM b20a) into there. It wouldn't be worth finding a used b21a1 because of the FRM sleeves Honda used in those engines, which is known to be more likely to cause the engine to burn oil prematurely.
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:34 AM
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Re: Rod knock??

Is the b20a5 a direct swap? Do I have to change the main harness? I'm sorry I just have never really worked on a Honda before.. what all do I have to do to swap over to the b20a5??
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:06 AM
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Re: Rod knock??

Yes, it's a direct swap if you use just the block and head from the b20a5. You'll want to keep your intake and exhaust manifolds and sensors.

There are a lot of people who have done this swap with no problems. Just be aware that the ports on the b21a1 intake manifold are a little different than the intake ports on the b20a5 head, so they don't match up completely. It bolts up fine, and you won't have any problems with it, but you won't be getting maximum performance with it either. Just wanted you to know about that issue because not a lot of people do.
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:49 AM
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Re: Rod knock??

Well that works for me, not looking for huge power right now just something to play around with and drive daily. Is there any write ups on this swap??
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:31 PM
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Re: Rod knock??

I'm not sure if there are any write-ups on this or not. But it's pretty straight forward. Everything on a b21 bolts up to the b20. If I was doing this, I'd use all accessories from the b21 to use on the b20. I'd also keep the water neck and sensors located on it from the b21. Literally, the only thing you will use is the b20a5 long block.

And like any engine swap, make sure to install new seals (cam seals, front and rear main seals), new timing belt, tensioner, and water pump as well. Another good idea is to replace all the small coolant hoses that run to and from the coolant pipe underneath the intake manifold. It's much easier with the engine out of the car.
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Old 03-27-2012, 03:13 PM
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Re: Rod knock??

Sounds good, ill do some research and begin the swap. Thanks for all the help :) BTW where can I.get a good b20a5 motor, who's a reliable source for motors?
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Old 03-27-2012, 04:51 PM
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Re: Rod knock??

I can't really answer that one. I've been fortunate enough to find them locally when I needed to find one. Both times I've found low mileage JDM b20a's within 60 minutes of me. The first one is still in my 89 Si. The second one is sitting on my garage floor waiting to be rebuilt. It only has about 60k miles on it, but I want to upgrade the internals for a possible turbo build I'm thinking about doing.

Here's a link I found for JDM engine suppliers. I don't know if they are still available from these sites or not though...
B20a
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:31 PM
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Re: Rod knock??

im having no luck with those web sites, ill look around though. i really want to get the prelude on the road!
i mean it runs and drives fine just has a chadder, but you cant really hear it with the hood closed and in the car.. i may get it looked at and see if they can adjust the valves to get it to last a little longer, and just drive it till it dies while i buy the b20a5 or rebuild one..
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:07 PM
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Re: Rod knock??

If it really was a rod knock you would most likely hear it while inside the car. And it's also been my experience that it wouldn't rev very high. I had one that wouldn't rev above 3500 rpm's. It didn't have any power and you could definitely hear it from inside the car.

Check the timing belt and make sure it's on correctly. And have the valve lash adjusted. You never mentioned anything about changing the oil after you bought it. My first 3rd gen would actually run louder when it was time to change the oil.

I once bought a 91 Si that the seller thought had a rod knock. Turned out to be the 2 piece crank pulley had come apart and was clanking around while the engine was running. After I replaced the pulley the engine ran fine.
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:42 AM
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Re: Rod knock??

Ill check the pulleys and do an oil change to. It revs fine but I haven't had it over 4000 Tom's cause I don't want to hurt it any more, ill keep looking for a b20a5 to rebuild or sla good one to swap in just in case this motors bad.. it runs and drives good other than that noise so , it was still worth trading my non running first Gen Mazda for it.
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Old 03-28-2012, 10:18 AM
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Re: Rod knock??

You traded a non-running 1st gen rex for a running* 91 Si 4ws?? I'd say you got a hell of a deal on that. What do you think of the 4ws? It's one of my favorite features on mine. And the reactions I get from people when I park with the wheels turned full are priceless. "Dude, I think your back wheel is broken"

Good luck with your search.
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Old 03-29-2012, 04:49 AM
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Icon12 Re: Rod knock??

yea, the lude has a rust spoy on the right rear about the size if a quarter but other than that its rust free :) i like the rear steer, just gotta get used to it. it almotst feels like the rear end is kicking out :P but all in all i love the car, its a solid 8 out of 10
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Old 03-29-2012, 05:39 AM
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Re: Rod knock??

if there is one spot, there is more........ attack it now before it eats your car.
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:40 AM
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Re: Rod knock??

Powertrainproducts.net engine & transmission superstore
So I found a website that sell brand new Honda motors, they have a b20a5 for 2500 or a b21a1 comp motor for 3000, which would be the best buy? Cause I have a b21a1 in my prelude right now so would paying the extra 500 be worth it? They give a 500$ core charge back so Idk. I don't know too much about Honda enginees but I think I'm going to get the b21a1 just because I wouldn't have to sacrifice some horse power and maybe extra parts to make the swap. What do you guys think?
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Old 03-29-2012, 12:03 PM
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Re: Rod knock??

The biggest difference between the b20a5 and the b21a1 (besides displacement of course) is that the b21a1 has cylinder sleeves made from FRM instead of the steel sleeves the b20a5 has. Do some research on FRM (Fiber Reinforced Metal) sleeves before you decide which engine to buy.

FRM sleeves are extremely durable, and can last a long time. But the drawback is the piston rings tend to wear prematurely, and cause the engine to burn oil.

One solution people have gone with is when rebuilding a b20a5 they will have the cylinders bored out to 83mm so that they accept the b21a1 pistons. Then they will basically have the same displacement, therefore power, as they would have with a b21a1, but not the problems associated with FRM sleeves.
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Old 03-29-2012, 03:44 PM
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Re: Rod knock??

Could I just buy a b20a5 intake manifold with the b20a5and still use the stock b21a1 harness ?
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Old 03-29-2012, 03:55 PM
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Re: Rod knock??

There would be no advantage to doing this. The b20a5 is OBD0, while the b21a1 is OBD1. There are some differences in the intake manifolds that would have to be addressed. They also use different wiring harnesses and ecu's.

Honestly, the difference I talked about between the b21a1 intake manifold and the b20a5 head is small. I mentioned it just so that you would be aware of it. I doubt you'd be able to even notice any power loss unless you dyno'd both setups. And like I said before, many people have gone with this combination. They weren't even aware there was this issue, and were happy with their swaps.
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